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To: bvw

A good response. Here is a counter argument:


Now, imagine if a government existed, which, in its innate humility, developed policies fostering a positive environment for all the citizens and nurtured and cherished them in such a loving and parenting way, creating so much positive energy that they all were liberated from their minds and lived happily ever after. While liberals and some social conservatives may dream of such a utopia, it can never be. Inevitably, their grand plans are doomed to failure. Morality and self improvement must be chosen and recognized independently. A life without challenge, bumps, and bruises is not a life at all as no self knowledge can be gained. We are better for our struggles, and government must leave us free to struggle, provided we don’t struggle over the lives and property of others.

A true utopia is where every imaginable vice is available, legal, and plentiful, but yet, the people, and by ‘the people’ I mean each individual person, chooses, volitionally, without the coercion of government, not to partake in these deviations because they are enlightened as to the nature of themselves and are deeply reflective of their thoughts and actions. Sort of like the Communists, the laudable goals of these do-gooders are achievable, if only they would look over their shoulders, turn about face, and march back whence they came.

“[A] State which dwarfs its men, in order that they may be more docile instruments in its hands even for beneficial purposes, will find that with small men no great thing can really be accomplished; and that the perfection of machinery to which it has sacrificed everything, will in the end avail it nothing, for want of the vital power which, in order that the machine might work more smoothly, it has preferred to banish.” —John Stuart Mill, last paragraph in “On Liberty”


192 posted on 08/15/2007 10:18:57 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: traviskicks

traviskicks wrote: “A true utopia is where every imaginable vice is available, legal, and plentiful, but yet, the people, and by ‘the people’ I mean each individual person, chooses, volitionally, without the coercion of government, not to partake in these deviations because they are enlightened as to the nature of themselves and are deeply reflective of their thoughts and actions.”

Your libertarian utopia is as unrealistic as the others you mentioned. What you are completely ignoring are the harmful effects of “plentiful” vices. While your citizens are learning and growing, they aren’t just harming themselves. Many decisions have impacts that last decades if not a lifetime. It’s a little late to sit back and contemplate your thoughts and actions when you’re dying of AIDS or have three children who you cannot afford to raise. Even if you personally can dabble and experiment without getting burnt, most people cannot survive the learning process unscathed, and guess what, I bet most of them will come looking for you to help pay for their mistakes.


219 posted on 08/16/2007 4:10:41 AM PDT by CitizenUSA
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