"Whoopi Ky Yay Mutha... Here's the light bill for all of our moonlight you've been using!"
Deal with it Ivan!
Posted on 08/04/2007 12:14:27 AM PDT by WesternCulture
OTTAWA (AFP) - Canada dismissed Russia's flag-planting at the North Pole on Thursday as a "15th century" stunt that does not bolster its disputed claim to the resource-rich Arctic.
"Look, this isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and plant flags and say, 'We're claiming this territory,'" Foreign Minister Peter MacKay told broadcaster CTV.
Earlier, a Russian mini-submarine reached the bottom of the Arctic Ocean under the North Pole at a depth of 4,261 meters (13,980 feet), to carry out scientific tests and leave a Russian flag.
The dive is believed to be the first of its kind and aims to advance Russian claims to a vast swathe of Arctic seabed thought to be rich in oil and gas.
"Our claims over our Arctic are very well-established," MacKay commented.
"There is no threat to Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic and as you know, we've made very strong commitments, the prime minister has been there recently, may be there again (soon), so we're not at all concerned about this (stunt).
"It's basically just a show by Russia," he said.
After meeting with his caucus, Prime Minister Stephen Harper told reporters the Russian sortie "shows once again that sovereignty over the north and 'our Arctic' is going to be an important issue as we move into the future."
Canada's government "has put a real emphasis on northern and Arctic sovereignty and we will continue to do so," he said, vowing to move swiftly to halt further encroachment on its northern frontier.
Russia, Canada, the United States, Denmark and Norway are at odds over parts of the 1.2 million square kilometers (460,000 square miles) of Arctic seabed.
The international rivalry in the region has intensified as energy reserves grow scarce in other parts of the world, and as the melting of the polar ice caps makes the area more accessible for research and economic activity.
As well, time is running out for signatories to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea to stake their claims to the region, as deadlines loom to prove their rights.
Scientists believe that warming could open up the famed Northwest Passage to year-round cargo shipping by 2050, as well as lay bare an estimated 9 billion tonnes of Arctic oil and gas deposits.
A Northwest Passage open year-round would reduce the sea trip from London to Tokyo to 16,000 kilometers (9,950 miles), against 21,000 kilometers (13,000 miles) via the Suez Canal or 23,000 kilometers (14,300 miles) going through the Panama Canal.
But some experts warn that oil and gas reserves in the region are not large enough to offset the operational costs and difficulties of working in frigid Arctic conditions.
Russia ratified the UN pact in 1997 and has until the end of this year to submit evidence to the United Nations that a section of undersea territory known as the Lomonosov Ridge, which includes the North Pole, is in fact a geological extension of Russia.
It must offer geological proof that its continental shelf extends beyond its 200 nautical mile (370 kilometer) economic zone.
"That's why Russia is so active in the Arctic lately," said Michael Byers, who holds the Canada Research Chair in global politics and international law at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver.
In 2002, Russia argued at the United Nations that there was geological data backing their claim that the Arctic seabed and Siberia are linked by a single continental shelf.
The world body dismissed Moscow's application then, citing a lack of evidence, but Russia is expected to try again.
Some 100 scientists aboard the Akademik Fedorov are now looking for the crucial evidence that the 2,000 kilometer (1,240 mile) long underwater mountain range that crosses the polar region is indeed an extension of Russia.
Canada has until 2013 to prove its claim.
Next week, Harper is expected to tour the Arctic, while a massive military exercise "designed to assert Canadian sovereignty in the north" kicks off at the southern tip of Baffin Island.
The exercise would include coast guard frigates, navy submarines and military aircraft, as well as 800 soldiers, federal police and Inuit rangers, said Brigadier General Chris Whitecross, commander of Joint Task Force North.
It follows plans announced last month by Harper to build six to eight ice-breaking patrol ships to prevent trespass of Canada's northern territories and to reaffirm its claim to the Arctic, at a cost of 7.1 billion dollars (US).
I think the Canucks (and much of Europe) have forgotten that title to land derives ultimately from the right of conquest. They can whine all they want about the Russian “stunt”. But it is an important marker. Whether Canada prevails will depend ultimately on the military resources it is willing to deploy against the Russkies. My feeling is that the Euros they so admire will flip them the bird when they come running to them for help. As usual, it will be up to Uncle Sam to face down the Russian bear.
"Whoopi Ky Yay Mutha... Here's the light bill for all of our moonlight you've been using!"
Deal with it Ivan!
Probably true.
The EU is always willing to launch sharp, formal, toothless protests and will be prepared to ‘mediate’.
This and nothing more is what to expect if the conflict escalates.
I’m not writing this because I loath the EU. I’m European myself and I support the idea of a united Europe.
But let’s be realistic and clear-sighted. “Europe is an economic giant, a political dwarf and a military worm,” like Mark Eyskens, a former Belgian foreign minister said.
A lot of Europeans oppose the idea of EU becoming a military super power under one command and our behavior in military conflicts mirrors this attitude.
Furthermore; presently, the EU doesn’t really care about the Canada-Russia dispute over this issue. Simply because it doesn't interfer with our basic interests.
But on the other hand, Denmark (neighbor country of mine, I’m Swedish) has made claims to parts of the Arctic Ocean, so the EU MIGHT get involved in the dispute this way later on.
Forgot to mention that Denmark is an EU member, while Norway, another Scandinavian country that also has made claims to parts of the Arctic, is not.
Most of Canada's small military force is deployed within a few hundred miles of the US border, where its nice and warm, and environmentally cushy.
Canada needs a northern model for military deployment, of which Sweden's is the most commendable, along with Swedish equipment and planes which operate in 70 below zero F weather, from remote bases and airdromes.
Who do we Canadians thank for this situation? 40 years of largely liberal socialist rule in Canada, along with all the bilingual social programs, which is where all the big federal bucks were spent, forming crown corporations and the like, to dole jobs out to the liberal party faithful.
PM Harper can't solve the military situation in a few years , but he can have a plan to change it. Falsely denigrating the Russian Bear will only encourage him.
There is enough oil in the Canadian Artic to meet US and Canadas needs for decades , without Arab oil. Russia knows it and wants to prevent the West from getting it.
Funny stuff!!
IIRC the argentine model is to send pregnant mothers to birth in the triangular section they claim for themselves, even including it on official maps and official territory sizes. A decent example -
“A lot of Europeans oppose the idea of EU becoming a military super power under one command and our behavior in military conflicts mirrors this attitude.”
Most member states aren’t going to give up unilateral control of their armed forces at any point in the visible future. Maybe in 5-10 years, with favorable governments in the notable states, but not now. On a global map it looks different, of course, but who wants to give military CINC to a bureaucracy that the tax sheep have no direct electoral power over?
Re DK/Greenland - Maybe it becomes the falkland model, where all of a sudden some pair of islands FCO wanted pass off to argentina quietly in the 70’s has after all become a notable item of natural resource value?
“Who do we Canadians thank for this situation? 40 years of largely liberal socialist rule in Canada, along with all the bilingual social programs, which is where all the big federal bucks were spent, forming crown corporations and the like, to dole jobs out to the liberal party faithful.”
In all fairness, include the cold war, which provided clear demarcations on this sort of thing.
“Canada needs a northern model for military deployment..”
- Sound very logical, bearing it’s geographical location in mind.
“..along with Swedish equipment and planes which operate in 70 below zero F weather..”
- Evidently, the Swedish Gripen planes function well in the arctic climate. By the way, Gripen has already made a tour to the northernmost part of your continent;
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kr3WROD9R80&mode=related&search=
It seems like Canada presently is determined to develop a new military defence, better suited for meeting the challenges of today’s world.
I wish you good luck.
Greetings from Gothenburg, Sweden to Canada!
“Re DK/Greenland - Maybe it becomes the falkland model, where all of a sudden some pair of islands FCO wanted pass off to argentina quietly in the 70’s has after all become a notable item of natural resource value?”
- Perhaps.
Upon hearing about this conflict, I immediately associated to the Falklands dispute. Arguments similar to those of today’s Russia were used by Argentina in that context.
Back then, Argentina claimed that the Falklands are a natural ‘extension’ of Argentina’s territory by refering to underwater geological structures.
Same to you my Viking friend.
The Gripen is ideal for Canada's North, but all eyes are focused on combat equipment for Afghanistan deployment.
Canada needs an Arctic region military sector with Swedish equipment and similar infrastructure. Successive liberal governments have been too busy making sure that the natives and Inuit stay drunk, so they can put social programs in place, rather than training them to service in the military with an attached education bill for soldiers who have completed service.
The Gripen is a fine aircraft, operating in very cold weather from snow covered runways , and from short runways. The Canadian military doesn't even have enough artic underware for its forces, for a Northern deployment at this point.
Maybe you Swedes need to come over for a "joint exercise."
We had a "DEW" line, now we have little but Sat Surveillance.
And the Bear has been on the move in Northern Canada for almost a decade .
Canada has to rely on the US Navy and its nuclear subs to shadow Russian ships in it's North, which now has many previously ice invested waterways which are now open almost year round.
Things have cahnged since the cold war, among others, the cold has changed politically and environmentally.
“The Gripen is ideal for Canada’s North, but all eyes are focused on combat equipment for Afghanistan deployment.”
- Do you expect development to take on a different course, given the recent dispute with Russia?
“Successive liberal governments have been too busy making sure that the natives and Inuit stay drunk, so they can put social programs in place, rather than training them to service in the military with an attached education bill for soldiers who have completed service.”
- That’s a sad story. Unfortunately, it’s very easy for governments to tranquilize its ‘subjugates’. Natives like the Inuites can be controlled with alcohol, rich people with money and well educated people with fancy titles.
On the other hand, The Canadians are a freedom loving people and I’m optimistic about Canada’s future, as well as the future of Western Civilization as a whole.
“Maybe you Swedes need to come over for a “joint exercise.””
- I’m convined The Swedish Armed Forces would be more than happy to participate in such an exercise.
Best of regards.
Canada’s left has disarmed Canada and Canada can’t do squat about it except to make statements like the one in the headline.
only notable difference is that at the time the Falklands topic was used by the then-military argentine government as a tactic of popular misdirection, similar to the Panama/Panama Canal in the past or even the Spain/Gibraltar confusion (failure to read treaty of Utrecht?), though I think most spaniards are a good bit more apathetic on the issue (maybe I am wrong?).
At the present time, the russian goal is 99% oriented on resources, and in a relatively short time-frame.
Will be interesting if they want to push the envelope and start claiming parts of antarctica for resource-exploration; the western multinationals won’t stand by for that.
>>>I think the Canucks (and much of Europe) have forgotten that title to land derives ultimately from the right of conquest. They can whine all they want about the Russian “stunt”. But it is an important marker. Whether Canada prevails will depend ultimately on the military resources it is willing to deploy against the Russkies. <<<
Exactly. What is Canada going to do if the Russians start drilling for oil in the Arctic?
Answer: More than likely, nothing but squack. And Russia knows this.
>>>I think the Canucks (and much of Europe) have forgotten that title to land derives ultimately from the right of conquest. They can whine all they want about the Russian “stunt”. But it is an important marker. Whether Canada prevails will depend ultimately on the military resources it is willing to deploy against the Russkies. <<<
Exactly. What is Canada going to do if the Russians start drilling for oil in the Arctic?
Answer: More than likely, nothing but squack. And Russia knows this.
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