Posted on 08/01/2007 2:10:05 AM PDT by Clive
What are Christian Korean women doing in Afghanistan anyway?
Haven't there been enough horrendous incidents involving missionaries, Christian activists, peace-at-any-price zealots in both Afghanistan and Iraq to dissuade others from plunging into the morass, ostensibly to do the Lord's work?
In too many cases, it's fallen to NATO or other soldiers, who risk their lives to rescue such people from their reckless courage, and refusal to recognize the dangers of their humanitarian selfishness. Especially women, foreign or not, who are Taliban targets.
Presuming most are still alive, the Korean Christians held hostage by the Taliban in Afghanistan pose a huge dilemma for the Korean government, the struggling Afghan government of Hamid Karzai, the NATO troops trying to secure peace and reconstruction in that country.
The only ones in the catbird seat are the Taliban of Mullah Mohammed Omar (how come he's still surviving?) and the al-Qaida of Osama bin Laden.
A series of deadlines have passed in the Korean hostage case, with the Taliban demanding captured prisoners be released before they'll free the hostages. Meanwhile, they, the Taliban, are killing the male Koreans one at a time to encourage Kabul's capitulation.
No word at this writing whether the 18 Korean women are still alive.
Of all governments involved, none know better than the South Koreans the folly of cooperating with, or succumbing to, terrorist demands. Since 1953, South Korea has survived, lived and thrived under perpetual threat from North Korea, the world's most merciless and perverted regime.
The Taliban also have German hostages, whom they seem to be killing one by one.
While one has sympathy for anyone in Taliban (or al-Qaida) hands, one also cannot escape the conclusion that it is largely the fault of captives that they are in such a precarious and frightening situation.
In 2005, Canadian James Loney and four members of the Christian Peacemakers Team (CPT) in Iraq were kidnapped and held as hostages by something calling itself the Swords Of Righteousness Brigade. Before being rescued by British SAS troops and Canadian JTF2 specialists, an American member of the CPT, Tom Fox, was murdered.
The gratitude of those rescued manifested itself in Loney refusing to wear a poppy on Remembrance Day, and refusing to testify against his suspect captors later held by the Americans. A similar response came from Norman Kember, a British CPT member who was rescued.
Prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, peace-types made a big hullabaloo about chaining themselves to supposed targets in Baghdad to deter air strikes -- but they cut-and-ran as soon as their demands were ignored and bombs fell.
The martyr complex exists among Christians as well as Muslim suicide bombers. Doubtless the Korean Christians exude sincerity, courage and probably forgiveness. But that's not the point. They shouldn't be there.
The Taliban are not Iroquois whom French Jesuits once felt faith-bound to rescue from paganism -- and suffered torture and death as a consequence. Those were different times, and one would think we, or the church, would have learned a lesson.
Apparently not. Christian groups should be discouraged from dabbling in regions where their religious faith is not appreciated, and where others are required to risk their lives to save them when inevitably they are kidnapped, to be used as political bargaining chips.
On the other hand, the fact that peaceful, decent people like the Korean Christians are captured and killed by such as the Taliban, is more evidence why Canadian and NATO troops are needed in that country -- not for the sake of hostages, but to help bring peace, security and a modicum of freedom to the Afghan people.
The Crusades and the Inquisition were feeble attempts at conversion based on the efforts of men and sanctioned by the over-reaching power of an apostate church (at that time), and had absolutely no scriptural basis or sanction. They are seen for what they were. Unfortunately those on the left tend to use those two examples to equate Christianity with Islam on their level of violence.
If you require Christians to be magically infallible, you are destined to be disappointed. If being disappointed is your goal, you are on the right track.
So am I. As a Christian I fully believe in the mission of evangelization, but if you’re going to go, you then have no right to endanger others by asking for rescue. That’s wrong.
Some times, things are the “victim’s” fault...or at the very least, unnecessary trouble easily avoided.
Once again, the world sees Christians ready to die for their faith and their belief in a risen Jesus. One wonders how this will be perceived by the Muslim world.
I sort of look at the, let’s call it “reaction,” to go in and rescue these Korean missionaries as part and parcel of the superiority of the brand of biblical Christianity people like Jemian are talking about here. “No greater love hath a man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” I’m not saying that these rescues should be expected or demanded. I think, though, that the influence on the hearts of men and women in the Western world to think to do this kind of thing comes from the proliferation of the Gospel message throughout the centuries.
Contrast this notion with the influence of the Islamic faith, where bombs and death are strapped around the waist and then unleashed in crowded marketplaces.
“The Crusades and the Inquisition were feeble attempts at conversion based on the efforts of men and sanctioned by the over-reaching power of an apostate church (at that time), and had absolutely no scriptural basis or sanction.”
The Crusades were part of a religious war that continues today. There are two sides to the war. The Christian side is seen as the aggressor in revisionist history. The barbarism of the Muslims is usually ignored. Millions of Europeans have been killed and enslaved by Muslims.
The Inquisition was an effort of a political leader to use religion to remain in power.
The Nazi's tried that, it did not work so good for them. Righteous people risked their lives to save the innocents from the hand of the Jack booted thugs.
Americans, mostly Christians, joined the Army and saved the world. Not for political purposes, but for truth, justice and the "American Way".
Something that Hollywood has bred out of most of todays youth. The American way is no longer truth, for as our schools teach, what is truth? A moral code must be rejected, for with morals come responsibility. It is not Justice, your statement to kill the innocents to obtain power over the populace is an example, the ends today justify the means, for without morality, all ends are justified, and the American way is simply to accumulate wealth so that you die fat and happy, instead of selflessly living to help others like once was a respected ideal in our society. Hedonism is the new God, just like the old Gods, old but painted like a harlot for a younger generation with no discernment.
Welcome to the New World Order, a Utopia in the lines of Hitler's fascism, Mao's Socialism and George Orwell's big brother rolled together. In short, modern America.
Only thing the seculars can all agree with, is that anyone that believes in something bigger than the self is a fool to be tolerated only as long as they do not interfere with the pursuit of pleasure. But without any morals to guide you you will end up pursuing anything to destroy yourself, but nothing to heal. Healing is not as "fun" as self indulgence.
But on this subject, I suspect I am preaching to the Choir.
What if they had a (holy) war, and nobody (from our side) came?
If you have ever been in the Choir, you know that we need preaching as much or more than the folks in the pews.
As to your statements about the Crusades and the Inquisition, I will try to explain what I understand of them and how they fit into my understanding of historic missionary activity.
The Crusades took place from 1095 to 1291. It was a response to Moslem domination of Jerusalem and the surrounding area. Moslems at that time were imposing a harse and represive rule on the populace. Stonings, beheading and enslavement of non-moslems were not uncommon. Christians in Europe found this intolerable and decided to stop these actions. Thus, the Crusades were primarily a response to moslem terrorism than an endeavor to share the Gospel with non-Christians. I understand that was a secondary goal instead of the primary goal. I don't condone or excuse the rapine and sacking which the Crusaders did. However, their actions were not outside of the norm of the prevailing cultures. I do not agree in the least with that action. I do not find it compatible with Scriptural teaching.
The Spanish Inquisition also existed in other countries in one form or another, so I will use the longer dates of 1476 to 1834. Again, it was largely political, with no overt attempt at expanding the Gospel. To be sure, it was operated by the church and used to "purify" the church and expel non-believers from the geographic landscape. I do not agree in the least with that action. I do not find it compatible with Scriptural teaching.
In a nutshell, I try to share these principles with others:
Lord Jesus, I need you. I recognize that I am sinful and separated from you. Please forgive me of my sin and make me into the kind of person you want me to be. Amen.
That's it. It is quite simple and anyone can do it. My responsibility is to tell you this message. What you do with it is between you and God.
I think the point of the article was not that missionary work isn't important, but rather the problems that it causes for the military and the civilian governments when hostages are taken. Many others could end up dead trying to rescue these missionaries.
Carolyn
Well, the same thing could be said of any of the martyrs, couldn’t it?
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Just say “Jupiter’s, Augustus, and the rest of the gods are AWRIGHT!” and we won’t burn you at the stake. How hard is that? If you don’t, what comes next your own fault. That’s how we roll here, and you knew it coming in.
The equivalent of “the rape victim was asking for it”
Christian groups and others are free to go to Afghanistan, and do. The Taliban are going to do what they do whether it be to Christians or other Muslims. And the U.S. Army is going to engage the Taliban whether or not they are holding hostages. Freedom must be defended and the practice of it should be encouraged. We did not purge these bastards just to let them dictate who may do what. Missionaries have traditionally put their lives on the line to bring the word to others. I can’t think of any place that needs it more than the middle east.
Can't sing well enough to be in the choir, but have spent time in the pulpit. Now I spend my time in the Middle East, I am just another of who this thread is about. If I am captured I would hope like any American citizen to be rescued from the hands of our enemies. But like any American citizen who travels outside of the borders of the United States, I am putting my life on the line. In most cases rescue does not happen, torture and death does. Like the previous poster, martyrdom happens, but I do not wish it on anyone, even a homosexual hedonist in the hands of the jihadi deserves rescue just because he is an American. After all we do not protect our own citizens, what use is our "super power" status?
I do not recall any indication that missionary's ever ask for any different treatment than any other citizen, nor do I recall any indication that becoming a missionary invalidating their citizenship as a few here seem to assume.
The missionary's captured are nothing but a political pawn, and a nice target for the military. Find the missionary's and kill their kidnappers and trust me, you will have eliminated some of the core terrorists behind the movement. The missionary's are good bait, it brings out the worst sorts, no pun on this thread intended.
If missionarys and peace corps workers do not go out to teach what America is all about, the job will be filled by Hollywood. Which by the way is why we are having a jihad. Over here, people actually believe that America is like what you see in the movies. The think serial killers are just a part of life, murder happens every day and sex is to be had on every street corner. THAT is what is FUELING the JIHAD! It is that offence with western culture that is the gas that drives their car. Only problem is they have no way to understand american culture but movies, so few Americans are willing to leave their easy lives to come to them.
Think about it, it is how to win the war. After people get to know me, or any other selfless American, missionary or not, it totally deflates the power of the Jihadi to raise an army on offence.
Just think what Muslims overseas think of us, if all they see is movies. Heck, I would hate us too if I thought Edward Sissorshands was normal here.
having followed this thread with some interest, I am a bit confused by some of the responses...it seems to me that folks go over there to save, convert, spread the word, etc, to the local populace...but then they’re captured, held hostage and military efforts are launched to find and perhaps ultimately kill the people who are holding them hostage, the very people that the hostages were trying to save...sort of like burning down the village to save the people in it...I’m gonna have to find out who’s holding my beer...
Carolyn, that is a problem. I have often considered whether someone will feel compelled or obligated to save me if something like this happens. My group has a “no rescue, no ransome” policy. I hope that this plan is respected.
“What if they had a (holy) war, and nobody (from our side) came?”
Then we’d all die or convert.
What would be the point of missionaries visiting a region where their faith is appreciated? This article takes a purely secular viewpoint, as if all Christians have to do in this life is make sure they stay safe. This article is simply wrong.
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