Posted on 08/01/2007 2:10:05 AM PDT by Clive
What are Christian Korean women doing in Afghanistan anyway?
Haven't there been enough horrendous incidents involving missionaries, Christian activists, peace-at-any-price zealots in both Afghanistan and Iraq to dissuade others from plunging into the morass, ostensibly to do the Lord's work?
In too many cases, it's fallen to NATO or other soldiers, who risk their lives to rescue such people from their reckless courage, and refusal to recognize the dangers of their humanitarian selfishness. Especially women, foreign or not, who are Taliban targets.
Presuming most are still alive, the Korean Christians held hostage by the Taliban in Afghanistan pose a huge dilemma for the Korean government, the struggling Afghan government of Hamid Karzai, the NATO troops trying to secure peace and reconstruction in that country.
The only ones in the catbird seat are the Taliban of Mullah Mohammed Omar (how come he's still surviving?) and the al-Qaida of Osama bin Laden.
A series of deadlines have passed in the Korean hostage case, with the Taliban demanding captured prisoners be released before they'll free the hostages. Meanwhile, they, the Taliban, are killing the male Koreans one at a time to encourage Kabul's capitulation.
No word at this writing whether the 18 Korean women are still alive.
Of all governments involved, none know better than the South Koreans the folly of cooperating with, or succumbing to, terrorist demands. Since 1953, South Korea has survived, lived and thrived under perpetual threat from North Korea, the world's most merciless and perverted regime.
The Taliban also have German hostages, whom they seem to be killing one by one.
While one has sympathy for anyone in Taliban (or al-Qaida) hands, one also cannot escape the conclusion that it is largely the fault of captives that they are in such a precarious and frightening situation.
In 2005, Canadian James Loney and four members of the Christian Peacemakers Team (CPT) in Iraq were kidnapped and held as hostages by something calling itself the Swords Of Righteousness Brigade. Before being rescued by British SAS troops and Canadian JTF2 specialists, an American member of the CPT, Tom Fox, was murdered.
The gratitude of those rescued manifested itself in Loney refusing to wear a poppy on Remembrance Day, and refusing to testify against his suspect captors later held by the Americans. A similar response came from Norman Kember, a British CPT member who was rescued.
Prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, peace-types made a big hullabaloo about chaining themselves to supposed targets in Baghdad to deter air strikes -- but they cut-and-ran as soon as their demands were ignored and bombs fell.
The martyr complex exists among Christians as well as Muslim suicide bombers. Doubtless the Korean Christians exude sincerity, courage and probably forgiveness. But that's not the point. They shouldn't be there.
The Taliban are not Iroquois whom French Jesuits once felt faith-bound to rescue from paganism -- and suffered torture and death as a consequence. Those were different times, and one would think we, or the church, would have learned a lesson.
Apparently not. Christian groups should be discouraged from dabbling in regions where their religious faith is not appreciated, and where others are required to risk their lives to save them when inevitably they are kidnapped, to be used as political bargaining chips.
On the other hand, the fact that peaceful, decent people like the Korean Christians are captured and killed by such as the Taliban, is more evidence why Canadian and NATO troops are needed in that country -- not for the sake of hostages, but to help bring peace, security and a modicum of freedom to the Afghan people.
I can't begin to have the vulgarity it requires to condemn those following the explicit instruction of the founder of all Western Civilization...
Wow...may I be the first to congratulate you? It's been proven beyond all doubt you have a stick lodged up your rear end...
Our military men and women join for the specific purpose of defending such as these. They certainly don't join so you can enjoy a nicely manicured lawn and a daughter that sneaks out at night.
Actually, defending foolish female missionaries from South Korea is nowhere mentioned in the oath, or in the manual...I suspect there have been millions of servicemen served entire enlistments without even considering the question.
There's no indication the Founding Fathers considered it.
You also need to stop picking on manicured lawns. I work very hard on mine.
If the Founding Fathers intended anything, it was that I could live my life and tend my lawn if I so choose...that's what makes me a sheep. I appreciate the sacrifices made for me, and I would never dream of wasting lives on what what was, for all intents and purposes, a criminally foolish pursuit. Defend them if you will with your own life...don't be trying to put my military in the service of proselytizing.
Now I'll let you get back to what, by all indications, is a pretty pathetic existence.
“Don’t you think that the Creator of the Universe had
other “teams” working on his agenda,...”
If by “teams” you mean “faiths” or “religions,” then no.
However, if you do, then that is the root of our disagreement, in which case this debate turns into a philosophical/religious debate rather than one merely centered on current affairs. ;)
No dispute re: Marxism/Leninism/Stalinism...any form of Communism. I’ve been fighting Commies for awhile now. But that is not the issue, nor similar. That is not a good analogy. Please stay to the issue.
One example of cultural destruction by missionaries was made into a movie last year, although not viewed as cd. Missionaries were in the Amazon. They were told not to go any farther, because the tribe didn’t want to be contacted and were fiercely protective. Of course, the missionaries didn’t respect that warning. The Indians listened to them. Then the report on CBN skips to the Indian killing the missionaries without reason. Ah, but missionaries must drag their families along, so the relatives went back to the Indians. Then there is a fast forward to show the Headman (Principal Chief) sans his six foot spear, dressed in western clothing, standing in front of cinder block buildings saying in english, “I love Jesus.”
First. That spear was a symbol of his attainment of manhood. Also, it was for protection of his family and tribe, as well as the attainment of food. Without it he is dependent on others for protection and food. The jungle that provided all he needed before. Now he has to learn a western job in order to get money to buy processed food and western goods.
The cinder block buildings may seem nice, but the traditional housing was cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.
Western clothing is a loss of identity. It is western guilt and arrogance that makes us think he needs to wear something else.
Language. Native language is essential to the survival of a culture. The tribes here in the US are at about 30% native speakers.
Religion. They were given a way to worship by God. Now people from the west come along and tell them that the way they have been doing so for thousands of years is false, and that they have all the answers. What would you think of your ancestors if this happened to you?
I won’t be able to discuss futher for awhile, since I’m going into the hospital tomorrow. Take care.
He figured out that you were smart enough to understand. Kind-of like Adam and Eve weren’t the only early people. Just the first. First indicates more than one. Also, consider the people in Nod.
Will continue this in about a week. I’m going into the hospital, so I’m going to be out of it.
Take care.
No. Teams means other Christian groups.
Philisophy/religion have everything to do with these current events.
Will be off line for about a week. Have to pay a visit to the hospital.
Take care.
Anything we can pray about? Don't have to answer here, you can FReepmail me. I have enjoyed our conversation thus far.
“Defend them if you will with your own life...don’t be trying to put my military in the service of proselytizing.”
Megabump
Proselytizing, a sensitive issue, is banned in Muslim conservative Afghanistan...
Korea is sending a lot of missionaries, but they're illegal in Afghanistan
No the cats are pretty skinny in a war zone...
Dead missionaries have furthered "the agenda" greatly.
Are you new here? That’s what FReepers do.
You can see my bio if you want.
Nope, but if you read the entire exchange, my reply falls into place.
I never heard that the hostages were asking others to come and bail themselves out.
Have you noticed the level of intensity of the Islamonazis? They’re willing to strap bombs to themselves to kill infidels.
It’s going to take a similar level of self-sacrifice to defeat them—not by suicide and homicide, but foregoing safety and security and serving as good witnesses to a greater truth. God bless these missionaries. If weak-kneed Americans had half their courage and resolve, the WOT might be just about over by now.
If he hasn’t already “signed up,” then his argument is fallacious?
So if I’m not in the military, I can’t have a view on the War in Iraq? If I’m not a woman, I can’t have a view on abortion? If I don’t own a firearm, I can’t support the 2nd Amendment?
What you said:
“Jesus never tried to convert anyone...”
What the scriptures say:
“Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest...”
“If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me...”
“Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven...”
“If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me...”
“Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men...”
“If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink...”
And for His followers:
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth...”
In short, every soul on earth is a mission field. Every soul on earth needs to be converted [according to the Bible] in order to be accepted by God into His Heaven. Jesus’ entire earthly ministry was one of seeking and saving that which was lost—converting. He then commissions His followers to go and do likewise. These are the plain teachings of scripture.
Oh woe is me! Why did I bother a sage with such penetrating insight.
PeeWee Herman would be proud of you making his teachings your own.
Actually, defending foolish female missionaries from South Korea is nowhere mentioned in the oath, or in the manual...
True enough, but neither is "contract law" and only someone benighted enough to cite the musings of a drunken standup comic could be so myopic as to think they had nothing to do with each other.
Defend them if you will with your own life...don't be trying to put my military in the service of proselytizing.
They are in the service of civilization, and the military is not yours. Unfortunately, civilization means, to some degree, we must suffer fools whose chief concern is their lawn.
Ron White for a guiding light, and lawncare as the Founding Fathers' casus belli...and you think I have a pathetic existence?
I think you need someone to give you a refresher course on "indications."
Yes, I am laughing at you....along with every other FReeper who knows "Talladega Nights" wasn't a documentary.
In a larger sense, perhaps...but they are in the service of the US, period.
and the military is not yours...
Well, as a matter of fact, it is.
Unfortunately, civilization means, to some degree, we must suffer fools whose chief concern is their lawn...
Oh yes...and pompous fools also...civilization as we know it means I need not seek your approval for my life, as long as I live it in a law-abiding manner. You really should question your own snobbery.
Moreover, you haven't addressed any of the points I brought up...not the fact that missionaries are illegal in Afghanistan, that this has been an issue in Korea and Afghanistan, and that missionaries have been trying to skirt the law by labeling themselves "aid workers."
You haven't addressed this issue:
It is simply futile for Koreans to engage in missionary or other religious activities in a country like Afghanistan, which has a history of deep hatred toward Christianity and is wracked by gunfights, kidnappings and suicide bombings. Even the governor of the province where the Koreans were kidnapped said the abductees should have stayed home and should not have been in war-torn Afghanistan. In August of last year, a Christian group from Korea was deported by the Afghan government after attempting to hold a large religious ceremony in the capital Kabul, despite repeated warnings and dissuasions by Korea's Foreign Ministry...Religious groups should realize once and for all that dangerous missionary and volunteer activities in Islamic countries including Afghanistan not only harm Korea's national objectives, but also put other Koreans under a tremendous amount of duress...
That's not me talking...That's a Korean editorial:
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200707/200707230006.html
As if I should dignify the prattling of one who thinks civilization can be balkanized?
Like everything else about your posts, it is obvious to any reader with more brains than yourself you have no ability or care to see second and third order effects.
Like the bufoons that gave us Bill Clinton, those who voted for Ross Perot never stopped to consider the only way their candidate could deliver what he promised was to become a dictator.
In the same way, no one is going to create a "civilized" Afghanistan where the answer to Mohammeden chauvinism is "keep the missionary out." Any who do are loathesome beyond words, be they Afghan legislator, Korean editor, or American Eloi.
You’re a fool. Adios.
It astounds me that after the drubbing I’ve given you, you still think enough of yourself to believe calling me a “fool” has any more impact than a toddler calling me “dumbhead.”
Enjoy your lawn.
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