Posted on 07/20/2007 12:30:45 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
UC Berkeley scientists, digging deep into a remote New Mexico hillside, have discovered a trove of fossil bones that they say is evidence that dinosaurs and their early relatives lived side by side for tens of millions of years before the relatives slowly died off and left the dinosaurs to dominate the ancient world.
Until now many scientists had thought that dinosaur "precursors" -- perhaps their ancestors -- disappeared suddenly long before the dinosaurs themselves rose to prominence, but the bones dug up by Berkeley paleontologists show evidence of a different story.
The discovery of a wide variety of creatures all mingled together in layer upon layer of rocks dating from Earth's late Triassic period between 235 million and 200 million years ago, they say, shows that the strange relatives of the dinosaurs remained on the scene while the dinosaurs evolved into truly dominant creatures during the Jurassic period, between 120 million and 200 million years ago.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
I hate to break this to you and your enlightened Christian friends, but God did place stumbling blocks, so to speak, for us. In fact, Christ makes this known to us in the Gospels. That was the primary purpose of speaking in parables. He makes this clear in his discussions of such with the apostles.
If you don't agree with somebody else's point of view, then fine, but there's no need to insult and disparage...
Maybe your just an jerk. I never once mentioned the age of dinosaurs. I don't know if they lived in the garden of Eden, I don't know if they were just animals possessed by satan's angels. I don't know the age of dinosaurs, don't care to know the age of dinosaurs. I don't how long a day was to God, never pretended to know. I do know that you can try to be Solomon all you want with worldly matters, and the true want to know knowledge comes from Godly knowledge. Did Solomon find happenest in his knowledge of worldly matters?
I do know that God once answered Job (see verse in previous post) that he (Job) doesn't know ditty squat about things like God's age. I assumed the same applied to the Earth and Light. I don't need to know these things, the are not pertinent to me to be honest.
I have the blessing to have been close friends to a number of Orthodox Jews during my life. You know what? None of them believe that the earth was created 6,000 years ago. Why? Because they understand Hebrew.
Any downloadable Bible program has Hebrew in it now days. You don't need a Jewish person to explain things now days. No I didn't see your post, still haven't.. like I said earlier (guess you didn't see my post either) ..that I didn't have time to read this whole thread.
God gave you a brain and he's given us plenty of evidence about how old the universe is.
You play God if you want.. me.. well.. I will follow a different path.
Job 38:19Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof..
God gave you a brain
Finally we agree on something... if you have something Biblical to share (Hebrew day post Biblically rooted). link it next time.. if you want use worldly carbon dating.. don't even bother posting to me.
Really, then answer for Job...
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? ... Job38:7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
One day it will be explained to me is all I need to know... perhaps after a few thousand billion years after I catch my breath from shouting his glory enough to listen.
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (became) without form, and void; and the heavens and they had no light.
I'm not familiar with Jeremiah, so I did a quick search and found this commentary by Clark:
Verse 19. My bowels] From this to the twenty-ninth verse the prophet describes the ruin of Jerusalem and the desolation of Judea by the Chaldeans in language and imagery scarcely paralleled in the whole Bible.[emphasis mine]
Clark doesn't give any indication that what is being described in the verse(s) you mention as being either global, or universal (read universe)
In fact, he makes it clear that it is local, i.e., Jerusalem / Judea. >p>The same thing applies to Matthew Henry's commentary:
The approaching ruin of Judah. (Verse 19-31.)source
I'd be willing to bet that if you check with other notable commentators, you'd find the same thing. That said, and after reading the whole of Jeremiah 4, I have to agree.
I can see how one might interpret it in the way you have if read out of context, or if presented to someone else out of context, but considering that the it does literally reference Jerusalem, specifically, in verse 14, I have to disagree with your argument.
You are actually fluent in Ancient Hebrew?!?
I believe you are in the wrong universe! You are describing the Tokra from the Stargate Universe. The StarTrek Universe is a whoelly different place!
Neither was Bishop Usher, he was an Anglican.
I am certain then that you can provide a link!!
I’ve often felt I was in the wrong universe...
Well it is clear that a lot of folks on this thread do not live in a universe anything like the ones you and I live in!! By the way long time since our last arguments. Good to agree on something!
Verse 19. My bowels] From this to the twenty-ninth verse the prophet describes the ruin of Jerusalem and the desolation of Judea by the Chaldeans in language and imagery scarcely paralleled in the whole Bible.[emphasis mine]
Please read those verses yourself to determine the meaning. The writer doesn't know about or understand that there was an age before this one. He is reading the top layer of those verses but they are much deeper.
In Jer.4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (became) without form, and void; and the heavens and they had no light. That is not about Judea only.
I can see how one might interpret it in the way you have if read out of context, or if presented to someone else out of context, but considering that the it does literally reference Jerusalem, specifically, in verse 14, I have to disagree with your argument.
I don't believe I am reading it out of context. In vs. 14 Jeremiah was warning his people, those of Jerusalem, about the king of Babylon coming, he is warning us of the king of end times, anti-christ coming.
Yup....you're correct about this. [Matthew 13:10-14] 10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
And....as far as this......No offense, but either you're crazy, or I am, because not only do I not see it, but I don't even see how anyone can come away with anything close to that conclusion from what you've presented here.
Tomorrow the sun will still come up and no one's salvation is affected by this disagreement........and I've been called much worse!
Then explain why there are more than one version of Jesus' very last words on the cross.
Luke 23:46 says: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
But John 19:30 says: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
How can both gospels be correct when they give different versions of the last words of Jesus?
Answering by saying something like "Those who are in the Spirit understand these things" is not a real answer. Both of these gospels cannot be right when they contradict each other.
ARRRRRRRRGHHHH! I've FAILED!
(Just kidding!)
John was a witness.....Luke was not. Luke compiled information from those who spent time with our Lord. I'm sure it will come out in the end that He said both things.....and John only recorded one of them. Luke on the other hand may not have been told everything.
For the same reason that if you and 3 of your friends all watched the same movie, you’d each remember different parts in differing ways. This does not make your 4 accounts of the movie contradictory.
Likewise, the 4 gospel accounts of Christ’s life each mention different things. This does not put them in opposition with each other, it merely gives 4 different points of view. The end result? Christ still died, completing his earthly mission of atonement for sinners. Of which you and I both are.
I commend your earthly efforts, but other haters of God have tried harder than you and still failed. Regardless of how you try to come up with increasingly clever “gotcha!” moments, you are still ignoring the hard truth. You are a sinner, and if you die in your sins you will face God’s righteous judgment. If you are without Christ’s atonement, you will be guilty of violating God’s law and punished in hell for eternity. If you are in Christ, if you can stand before God in the righteousness of Christ, you will spend eternity in the presence of God, glorifying him forever.
The word of the Lord endures forever.
One can only hope that you're right. Personally, I think it does matter, for reasons I shall not get into right now....
...and I've been called much worse!
Sorry if I offended you in any way. It was meant as tongue in cheek, and not a deliberate affront to your character.
Thank you....no apology is necessary. No offense taken.
Jeremiah 4:14
14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
Sorry, I just don't see it....
[LowOil]Really, then answer for Job...
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? ... Job38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
So where in those verses does it imply that God set a stumbling block in creation? God tells Job that He is in control. I think that we can both agree on that.
The Bible mentions a stumbling block here:
"Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles," says 1 Corinthians 1:22-23.
The Bible describes humans as being able to be a stumbling block in several places. For example:
Thou shalt not .... put a stumblingblock (Hebrew: mikhshol) before the blind (Lev 19:14).
The word is a figurative reference to anything that causes someone else to stumble spiritually. I would argue that Young Earth Creationists are a stumbling block to informed people, especially scientists and other technical people. If Christians claim that the earth is only 6,000 years old despite complete evidence to the contrary, why should they believe Christians when they talk about who Jesus Christ is.
You and I probably move in different circles. At work I am surrounded by extremely intelligent people. You would be surprised at how many times I have been talking about the Christian life to people and they say "don't Christians believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old?" It happened to me on a blog just last week. A lot of intelligent people who might otherwise become Christians are put off by Young Earth Creationists who have twisted both the Bible and science in order to preserve their man-made belief in the age of the earth.
God is very clear that He did not put stumbling blocks in His creation.
The heavens are sounding the glory of God; the arch of the sky makes clear the work of his hands (Psalms 19:1).
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20).
All truth is God's truth and God did not put any stumbling blocks in His creation. To suggest otherwise clearly goes against what the Bible says.
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