Posted on 07/17/2007 11:16:28 AM PDT by Clint Johnson
Please excuse the clumsiness of a 54-year-old, good ole Southern boy writer who don't know much about blogging, but I was curious to read some reactions to Is It True What They Say About Dixie by Mary Knapp. Miss Knapp did a fair job, but some quotes were a little out of context.
The quote about "our ancestors are racists" really should be something like: "Outsiders to the South say our ancestors were racist slave owners so today's Southerners must be racist too." My original quote was meant to show the absurdity of the point of view that some have of today's South being a dark, scary place where white folks would like to bring back slavery.
Miss Knapp also confused 19th century abolitionist/terrorist John Brown with 18th century slave trader John Brown, who I enjoy pointing out was the sugar daddy of today's ultra liberal Brown University.
Freepers can see my entire presentation this Saturday, July 21, at 10:00 p.m. on C-Spann 2 BookTV. This will be the first time that BookTV will show this event, recorded a few weeks ago at a Eagle Forum Collegians meeting in Washington, D.C.
My purpose in writing the book was to point out that The South IS RESPONSIBLE for the republic that the U.S. has become. Left to the power brokers of the Northeast, the nation would still be just 13 states hugging the Atlantic Ocean and we would still be governed by the Articles of Confederation. The South is more patriotic (demonstrated by a 2005 Dept. of Defense survey showing Southerners are twice as likely to serve in the Armed Forces than any other region); The South is more racially welcoming (Census records show black folks are abandoning the Northeast and heading South for better opportunities; The causes for The War for Southern Independence were much more complicated and numerous than the official government explanation of "The North wanted to free the South's slaves."
Whether or not Lincoln ordered the arrests, his minions did, and the OR contains several such incidents. What part of the Constitution gave Lincoln or the military the power to do so?
The story of the arrest warrant for Taney rests on shaky grounds. Just because the evidence is accepted by Cindy Sheehan's pals ...
The validity of such was attested to by Roger B. Taney, Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court. By former Justice Benjamin R. Curtis - no fan of Taney. By Baltimore Mayor George W. Brown. By Ward Lamon, Lincoln's intimate and the federal marshal charged with the warrant. IIRC, both justices Nelson and Campbell were aware of the warrant as well. I think the reason it was not served is due to the respect and esteem that Lamon held for Taney.
If Lincoln resorted to hard measures to fulfill his Constitutional responsibilities
The US Supreme Court ruled his extra-constitutional actions illegal in ex parte Milligan.
Lincoln's government was not the one which ordered suspected "bridge burners" to be hung on bridges as an example to an untamed public of the power of the government.
Whoop to do. Lincoln's administration bragged that it the power to ring a bell, and anyone could be arrested. But regarding the destruction of government/private property, is it your contention that such is nonpunishable?
Suppression of the mails was a southern Democrat specialty.
Could you provide a link? In the CSA the Postal Department made a profit, unlike the Union departments constant losses.
I have a great deal of respect for the misguided confederate soldiers ...
Misguided? You're a pompous buffoon and fool to think that Southerners were uneducated yokels unable to think for themselves - they fought for liberty from a despotic union, one in which yankees had been fomenting war and aggression since the ink was barely dry on the Constitution.
Curtis and Brown rely on hearsay from Taney himself, not an unbiased source. Lamon's account may be open to question since so much of his biography was written by others. The long and short of it is that there is not a single solid piece of evidence supporting the tale. As historians like James Simon discovered as they wrote their books like "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers". The myth is kept alive by people like you.
The US Supreme Court ruled his extra-constitutional actions illegal in ex parte Milligan.
And what did the confederate supreme court think of the extra-constitutional acts of Jefferson Davis...oh wait...never mind.
Could you provide a link? In the CSA the Postal Department made a profit, unlike the Union departments constant losses.
Prior to the rebellion, as Alexander Stephens pointed out, the Post Office in every part of the country except the South made money. The Southern postal system had to be subsidized to the tune of millions of dollars each year. And once Davis was in the post office did break even...because of outrageous postal rates. In the beginning rates were 5 cents per 1/2 oz under 500 miles, 10 cents per 1/2 oz over 500 miles, and 2 cents drop letter and circulars. Comperable US rates were 3 cents per 1/2 oz under 3000 miles and 1 cent drop letters and circulars. Confederate rates skyrocketed during the war until the average person couldn't afford to mail a letter. Which suppressed the mails to a certain extent.
...they fought for liberty from a despotic union, one in which yankees had been fomenting war and aggression since the ink was barely dry on the Constitution.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Curtis and Brown rely on hearsay from Taney himself, not an unbiased source.
Any proof that Curtis, Brown, Nelson and Campbell heard it from Taney?
Lamon's account may be open to question since so much of his biography was written by others.
So you're saying that Lamon made it up, Mr. Black his wife/daughter, or someone else? Me, I prefer to believe the Chief Justice. Who also informed Mayor Brown that he - Brown - would also be arrested.
Taney had to learn of it from someone, I mean, Lincoln arrested other federal justices. During his administration the military fixed the 1864 election, even arresting union officers (one was Benjamin F. Sells, arrested 1 Oct 1863 because he stated, 'I am going to vote for Vallandigham, and so are all my company.'). Only those swearing to vote for Lincoln were allowed passes, and the military 'guarded' the polling booths to suppress non lincoln voters.
The myth is kept alive by people like you.
The OR is replete with orders for the arrest of editors, judges, lawyers, children, priests, congressmen, ex-governors, and anyone else not toeing the party line.
Of course, the Lincoln administration swearing out a warrant to be used at the discretion of the server is not without precedent. From the report of General John A. Dix to Secretary Stanton, 25 Jun 1862:
In October [3 Oct 1861] last I was authorized by the Secretary of State to arrest Judge R. B. Carmichael of [Talbot County] the Eastern Shore of Maryland, if I should deem it expedient ... and if necessary in his own Court.The judge was later arrested. I'll believe that Taney was simply one of thousands upon thousands ordered to be arrested during the reign of a madman and despot.
And obviously some are still oozing.
Any proof that Curtis, Brown, Nelson and Campbell heard it from Taney?
Their versions have been posted here from time to time and if memory serves they all relate that Taney told them of his fears. None credit a different source.
So you're saying that Lamon made it up, Mr. Black his wife/daughter, or someone else? Me, I prefer to believe the Chief Justice. Who also informed Mayor Brown that he - Brown - would also be arrested.
Of course you would, since that is the version that fits your agenda. Taney was telling people he expected to be arrested for his decision even before he had issued it. He never credited any source for this information, or gave the reason why be believed it. And, as it turns out, he was wrong. He wasn't arrested and remained on the bench for the remainder of his life. And as for who to believe, I prefer to believe historians who have researched the issue rather than sources like Tommy DiLorenzo or the Kennedy boys. And, surprise, surprise, not a single biography of Taney that I'm aware of repeats the tale.
The OR is replete with orders for the arrest of editors, judges, lawyers, children, priests, congressmen, ex-governors, and anyone else not toeing the party line.
And yet, amazingly enough, not a whiff of evidence supporting the claim of a Taney arrest warrant. Keep looking.
The judge was later arrested. I'll believe that Taney was simply one of thousands upon thousands ordered to be arrested during the reign of a madman and despot.
Why drag Jeff Davis into this?
I'm glad my ancestors were CREATED in God's image.
Their versions have been posted here from time to time and if memory serves they all relate that Taney told them of his fears. None credit a different source.
Taney told Lamon of the warrant?
Of course you would, since that is the version that fits your agenda.
No agenda at all. It fits with every other unconstitutional action taken by Lincoln and his administration. Arresting people for what they said, or when they remained silent. Arresting anyone who had the temerity to interfere with the administration's plan of conquest and plunder.
Taney was telling people he expected to be arrested for his decision even before he had issued it. He never credited any source for this information, or gave the reason why be believed it.
Gee Wally, why then would Lamon state that Lincoln gave him the warrant to use at his discretion? Because Taney said so? Bwahahaahahahahahaha!
And as for who to believe, I prefer to believe historians who have researched the issue rather than sources like Tommy DiLorenzo or the Kennedy boys. And, surprise, surprise, not a single biography of Taney that I'm aware of repeats the tale.
My God you're guillible!
For once, Tyler's grandiose manner is not one whit too grandiloquent in writing that " there is nothing more sublime in the acts of great magistrates that give dignity to governments, than this attempt of Chief Justice Taney to uphold the supremacy of the Constitution and the civil authority in the midst of arms." He recognized no truth in the maxim, "Inter arma, silent leges," and he fearlessly performed his duty, though the aged jurist knew what peril he might incur, and remarked, as he left the house of his son in law, James Mason Campbell, that "it was likely he should be imprisoned in Fort McHenry before night; but that he was going to court to do his duty."
Bernard C. Steiner, Life of Roger Brooke Taney, Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, Baltimore: MD, Williams & Wilkins, 1922, pp. 494-495 [emphasis mine, italics in original, citing Samuel Tyler, Memoir of Roger Brooke Taney, LL.D.,: Chief justice of the Supreme court of the United States, Baltimore, MD: John Murphy & Co, 1872, p. 427;]
Obviously you bear little if any resemblence to your family members.
Taney told Lamon of the warrant?
There is no evidence to support that. Just like there is no evidence to support the existence of a warrant in the first place. Lamon was known for, shall we say, exaggerating his role in certain areas.
No agenda at all. It fits with every other unconstitutional action taken by Lincoln and his administration. Arresting people for what they said, or when they remained silent. Arresting anyone who had the temerity to interfere with the administration's plan of conquest and plunder.
And the lack of evidence to support it fits with most of your other claims made about Lincoln or the rebellion.
My God you're guillible!
Having seen your work over the years that is indeed the pot calling the kettle black. So Taney said he was afraid he was going to be arrested. Did Lamon tell him that? Did anyone tell him that? If someone did, and it wasn't Lamon, then that would mean there was a third party in on the knowledge which conflicts with Lamon's account that only he and Lincoln were in on it. So in your haste to swallow the story you have problems keeping it straight.
I don't blame the bridge burners one bit. They were protecting their nation. Those railroads were taking an alien army across their land to destroy their nation. What if Osama was relying on such a railroad conveying fighters to shoot at American flags and to destroy the best government the world has ever known? The American people have had a history of bravely fighting against government tyranny and the bridge burners upheld that noble tradition well.
Misguided? You're a pompous buffoon and fool to think that Southerners were uneducated yokels unable to think for themselves - they fought for liberty from a despotic union, one in which yankees had been fomenting war and aggression since the ink was barely dry on the Constitution.
I'm a kind man who tries to think the best of people. After reading the secession declarations, the possible conclusions are that the Confederate soldiers were either duped yokels fighting for the rich man's slaves or they fought with eyes wide open for the furtherance of the institution of slavery.
Anyone who really is serious about the roots of racism need only skip the whole time the Civil War was fought and concentrate on the 15 or 20 years after. This is the time when black people were newly free and looking for employment and homes in an already hard hit economy struggling to recover both in the South and the North. It is a period governed by attitudes much like the attitudes shown to illegal immigrants in this country now. The difference is that in the 1870s and 1880s nobody was concerned about being PC.
“I think the TV footage that was seen during the Civil Rights Era has more to do with that impression in northern minds.”
And yet, they don’t make the same racist connection about themselves despite seeing similar TV footage from norther cities.
“And every textbook in South Carolina public schools is approved at the state level, so that must be the version of things they want propagated. It’s not the yankees putting that book into your young hands.”
Nope. It’s Southern liberals and yankee transplants.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Don’t confuse Bubba hore tep and other Southernphobes with the facts.
Please define "free" in this usage. AFAIK Cherokee are as freer than us Scots-English-Dutch, what with tax exemptions and being able to run gaming establishments (which would get me arrested).
Oter than that, we basically agree.
fyi, our tribe has ZERO interest in having a casino BUT we are seriously thinking of building a racetrack for quarterhorses in east TX, between Shreveport & Dallas. (one reason for this is it takes MANY people to run a racetrack, especially considering parking/security/concessions/etc. a quarterhorse track would give us "full employment" & HOPEFULLY fund our "soon to be" Indian community college.)
free dixie,sw
FIRST, return all the $$$$$$$$ that belonged to the various tribes, which was "kept for safekeeping" by the BIA & other government agencies (TENS of MILLIONS of dollars). ALL of the money "mysteriously disappeared" during the "wee willie klintoon administration". (SURPRISE, SURPRISE!)
SECOND, abolish the BIA (Boss Indians Around, is what we call the BIA.) & let the tribes handle their own affairs,
THIRD, prohibit the FBI & other outside agencies from entering the reservations, without invitation, to "investigate crimes or POTENTIAL crimes" ("potential crimes" are called "fishing expeditions".), since the various tribal governments are perfectly able to take care of crime committed on tribal lands &
FOURTH, get the government out of our lives & leave us ALONE!
free dixie,sw
why is it that you believe all the REVISIONIST, south-HATING bilge that is on the "worldwidewierd" instead of doing your own research from PRIMARY source documents??? are you afraid that you won't like what you'd find???
fyi, NOTHING posted on "mr. gore's internet" can be BELIEVED, absent INDEPENDENT proof. the "www" is FILLED with gossip, nonsense, KNOWING lies, ignorant opinions "dressed up" as facts,bigotry,stupid rantings & conspiracy theories.
ANYBODY who quotes UNPROVEN sources on the "worldwidewierd" is either trying to DECEIVE the UNwary, STUPID or TERMINALLY ignorant. it's no more complicated than that.
laughing AT you.
free dixie,sw
may i suggest that you ridicule & laugh AT "bubba", as i do???
you might also (constantly) ask him WHICH of the former BANNED members of "the DAMNyankee coven" that he USED to be. (he hates having his "returned from OBLIVION status" pointed out to him.)
free dixie,sw
PITY that they either didn't stay home & mind their own business or better yet, throw out "mr. lincoln & his merry band of thugs". had they done either, a MILLION American lives would not have been thrown away for NOTHING of value!
face it, "roo" you've been LIED TO & force-fed DAMNyankee bilge, until you believe it to be ambrosia.
free dixie,sw
I find it interesting, though, that people on the one hand tell of hearing the "official yankee version" of the war back in grade school, then blame Jesse Jackson Jr. for instituting it just a few years ago.
Tell us about the yankees burning down the synagogue in Alexandria a decade before it was built.
Tell us about the Texas privateers who captured a U-boat and put it up in a Galveston park.
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