Posted on 07/15/2007 10:28:03 PM PDT by goldstategop
I take a backseat to no one in believing victory in Iraq is essential to America's national security.
I would love to see Iraqis all get along. I would love to see Iraq become a free and independent state or states. I would love to see it become a model for self-government in the Muslim Middle East.
But more important to Americans is the utter defeat of al-Qaida and Iranian proxies there. That's what constitutes victory for the U.S.
However, that's not the way President Bush defines victory. In fact, he's never defined it – which is one of the reasons we can't achieve it.
I believe I can point to the turning point in the Iraq war – the moment, the day, the hour it all started to go downhill for our mission. It is important for Americans to understand and acknowledge this turning point, or we will never learn from our mistake of historic proportions.
It happened in November 2004.
Prior to that time, there was little question America was accomplishing its mission in Iraq. It was on the way to victory. It was destroying the enemy and transforming the country into a U.S. ally in the Middle East – one that would not likely tolerate al-Qaida activity or efforts at Iranian hegemony.
But what happened in November 2004 changed all that. It wasn't a victory on the battlefield by al-Qaida. It wasn't new tactics by Iranian-sponsored terrorists. It wasn't a spontaneous uprising by America's enemies. It wasn't an outbreak of religious hostilities between Sunnis and Shiites. And it wasn't any failure by U.S. troops.
It was, first, a public-relations disaster called Abu Graib.
Photos of prisoners being mocked and abused released to the world represented a major turning point in the war. It put the U.S. on the defensive. It compromised America's high moral ground in the conflict. It suggested we weren't "fighting fair."
But the political response to this tempest in a teapot within the U.S. caused an even bigger setback for U.S. military forces.
That media coup for the enemy set off a chain of events that ultimately led the politicians in Washington to handcuff our troops – ensuring the quagmire that followed.
Abu Graib spelled the end of coercive interrogations. You can thank Sen. John McCain, now a presidential candidate, for that. He equated what we saw in those Abu Graib photos with "torture." He kept saying it over and over again. He prevailed on Congress and the president to change U.S. military procedures on interrogations that had been in place for decades.
The result? Now enemy captives know they don't have to talk. They know exactly what U.S. interrogators will and won't do to get information. They have no fear. And there was absolutely no longer any reason to provide information about the next enemy attack. There was absolutely no reason to reveal where the roadside bombs were. There was absolutely no reason to disclose who the traitors were within the Iraqi government, military and police forces.
What followed next is plain for anyone to see: U.S. and Iraqi casualties skyrocketed. No longer could we see the attacks that were coming. U.S. military forces were operating in the blind, without any valuable intelligence. And nothing has changed since.
When we stopped performing coercive interrogations, we no longer had the ability to prevent attacks before they happened. We no longer had the human intelligence we had prior to November 2004. What we get from prisoners now is nothing, nada, zilch, zip … bupkiss.
They all know they can hold out. U.S. interrogators cannot even speak harshly to these enemy combatants. The rules about interrogations were released publicly, debated in Congress and revealed to the enemy through the international news media.
Would you give up information under those circumstances?
Is this any way to fight a war?
Is this a plan for victory or a recipe for defeat?
There are other factors involved in turning Iraq into a quagmire. We have turned on our own men – prosecuting them for war crimes that were never committed. We have limited our tactical and strategic objectives. We have ruled out the kind of full-scale assaults on enemy strongholds we used at the start of the war.
At the same time, President Bush sold out security at home by refusing to enforce the laws of the land with regard to border security and immigration policy. This undercut his authority and credibility as a strong leader for national security.
Is it too late to reverse course?
Can victory still be achieved?
Or is the war truly "lost" as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has proclaimed?
I know one thing for certain: Only when we acknowledge the mistakes of the past will we have an opportunity to correct them.
I pray Americans wake up to these realities before it is too late.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
“The trigger was Abu Ghraib.”
That was nothing but smoke and mirrors and worse a lousy excuse for lack of resolve and determination to win.
Turning points don’t have to be based on truth. Perception is everything.
You can have your perception, I’ll take the truth any day any time over perception.
This from Joe Farah, a man who believes terodactyls are flying over Asia and Africa.
Precisely. And the reason the MSM and the rest of the Al-Qaida agitprop network needs to be balanced. Unfortunately, the current adminstration has failed, from the highest levels down, to get that message to the people.
Yes, the truth is out there if you want to find it, there are milbloggers who tell it pretty well, from what I have been told by folks who know. But most of the MSM has been trying to lose this war on the home front since before the ashes of the WTC cooled, not becuase they care about America or the war on terror, but because they think GWB is the enemy. Their worldview is either that narrow or they are traitors, and maybe a little of both.
The perceptions they have fostered, from the first cries of "Quagmire!" have been no accident, and are taken almost page by page from the media playbook they used to lose the Vietnam war, even as our troops there racked up victory after victory in the field, similarly hampered by PC micromanagement.
Abu Ghraib was subterfuge used by the liberals and RINO's to bash President Bush and de-fang our troops so to ensure snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It wasn't so much the "abuses" at Abu Ghraib as dipicted in photos which just happened to make the media as much as it was the fall out from the liberal reaction to the photos. Our Government caved, and we lost momentum in Iraq. We are just in the past few weeks beginning to reclaim that momentum lost in 2004. If the present "surge" is allowed to run it's course, we will reclaim victory and give defeat to our enemies. If the liberals get their way (defeat through withdrawal), then what has started to be reclaimed will again be lost.
Oh please! The Leftist pencilnecks are still crying over 'chemical weapons!'-phosphorus and our Falluja 'atrocities!'....where we even gave them advance notice!
*******
Bush said in his second inaugural address: "The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."
This is resonant of John F. Kennedy in his inaugural address in 1961, when he said: "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
We accept democracy as normal; it is not. Democracy is the most radical and revolutionary political idea in the world.
The key thing for those on the Left to understand is that intense dislike of Bush and echoes of Vietnam do not make a foreign policy. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Bolton - they too will pass. What will go on is the great human desire to be free.
The great danger for the Left is that its Vietnam and Bush obsessions may mean that it will end up on the wrong side of history.- Michael Costello
I’ve always wondered why Bush or a representative doesn’t have 3 great war stories per day to tell so that the stories can then be discussed at every water cooler throughout the day. It would at least give supporters something to talk about - and put the liberals on the defensive.
Napoleon in Spain, The Nazis in Eastern Europe, and the Russians in Afganistan followed your ignorant dogma.
They all lost badly.
Stick with what you know. You are utterly incompetent at Military Strategy. Iraq is as far from “lost” as it is possible to get as anyone who is not a blindly partisan hysterically ignorant fool knows.
Last week Bush had two events where he spent 3 hours talking wholly about Iraq. Know what AP reported about?
A two minute answer Bush gave to a stupid reporters absurd question about Libby. Ignored 188 mins to fixate on 2 minutes of Journalistic stupidity!
Until Talk Radio, the Conservative bloggers and the supposedly “conservative” columnists get off the bench and start HELPING get the message out, the PC Media is simply going to censor anything positive about Iraq from getting out.
LLS
Do you dispute Joseph’s point that Abu Graib was the turning point in public support of the war and that Bush’s refusal to enforce our own borders was inconsistent with the alleged terrorist threat? Or, are you just changing the subject?
Abu Grab wasn’t the turning point.
Administration WIMPERY ABOUT the pictures at Abu Grab BECAME the turning point!
Wimpery, boys and girls—the Wimp factor did it.
W should have laughed the pics off as no worse than a Fraternity Initiation (think Skull and Bones), and compared panties on heads to their CHOPPING OFF heads. Repeated at every oppertunity until the press was sick of it, this tactic would have worked—especially when punctuated with lots of headchopping video.
The war is won - we now need to keep the peace.
THEN when it came out (FoxNews) that we "couldn't" use Israeli made ammo - which we drastically needed at the time - because it offended Muslims, I said that's it the Iraq 'War' is FUBAR.
Bush can’t rely on the media. He needs to give people like us the info. He also needs to stop speaking like an unhappy teenage girl and put some authority and punch in his tone. All he does is whine and defend. No one can listen to him the way he is now.
And what have YOU ever done to help get the message out? I am sick of this perpetual pouting from the Do Nothings whiners on the Right.
YOU all sit on your butts and whine waiting for the President to some how magically do for you what you are too arrogantly lazy to do.
Here is an example of what the President faces. Instead of finding EVERY excuse to whine about the President how about the Perpetual Pouters on the Right get off their butts ONE time and HELP him?
President gave 3 hours worth of Press events last week alone wholly on Iraq. Know what AP covered? A question about Libby from a stupid reporter that took maybe 1 min to answer.
AP is the primary source for "news" for all broadcast and news papers in this country. And they simply censored all news on Iraq to flab about a stupid Libby question! This is what the President is fighting.
So how about the whiners on the always lazy Right quit actively carrying the PR water for the Left and get in this fight?
How many times does the PC Media have to be caught lying to Conservatives before they quit accepting the DNC’s PR machines words as dogma?
http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/default.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iraq
Why Iraq
One of the really infuriating things in modern politics is the level of disinformation, misinformation, demagoguery and out right lying going on about the mission in Iraq. Democrats have spent the last 3+ years lying about Iraq out of a political calculation. The assumption is that the natural isolationist mindset of the average American voter, linked to the inherent Anti Americanism (what is misnamed the “Anti War movement”) of the more feverish Democrat activists (especially those running the US’s National “News” media) would restore them to national political dominance. The truth is the Democrat Party Leadership has simply lacked the courage to speak truth to whiners. The truth is that even if Al Gore won the 2000 election and 09-11 still happened we would be doing the EXACT same things in Iraq we are doing now.
Based on the political situation in the region left over from the 1991 Gulf War plus the domestic political consensus built up in BOTH parties since 1991 as well as fundamental military strategic laws, there was NO viable strategic choice for the US but to take out Iraq after finishing the initial operations in Afghanistan.
To start with Saddam’s Iraq was our most immediate threat. We could NOT commit significant military forces to another battle with Saddam hovering undefeated on our flank nor could we leave significant forces watching Saddam. The political containment of Iraq was breaking down. That what Oil for Food was all about. Oil for Food was an attempt by Iraq to break out of it’s diplomatic isolation and slip the shackles the UN Sanctions put on it’s military. There there was the US Strategic position to consider.
The War on Islamic Fascism is different sort of war. in facing this Asymmetrical threat, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone.
Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The “Holy” soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is mostly neutral in terms of guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).
Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map? Iraq, for which we had the political, legal and moral justifications to attack, is the strategic high ground of the Middle East. A Geographic barrier that severs ground communication between Iran and Syria apart as well as providing another front of attack in either state or into Saudi Arabia if needed.
There were other reasons to do Iraq but here is the strategic military reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.
Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect” to understand. It’s so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like “No Blood for Oil” or “We support the Troops, bring them home” or dumbest of all “We are creating terrorists” then to actually THINK.
Westerners in general, and the US citizens in particular seem to have trouble grasping the fundamental fact of this foe. These Islamic Fascists have NO desire to co-exist with them. The extremists see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. There is simply no way to coexist with people who completely believe their “god” will reward them for killing us.
So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest of the Jihadists realize we are serious. They same way killing enough Germans, Italians and Japanese eliminated the ideologies of Nazism, Fascism and Bushido.
Americans need to understand how Bin Laden and his ilk view us. In the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming “We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad” and recruit the next round of “holy warriors”. Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11-01 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it -
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
Winston Churchill
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.