Posted on 07/05/2007 9:30:29 AM PDT by ShadowAce
BUMP!
I believe the longevity of written documents is a function of the paper construction and the chemical makeup of the ink. I remember hearing that certain documents (not sure of the time period) were very much in danger due to acidic degradation.
OMG!!! It is the Y2K crap all over again. The world is going to end shortly!!!!
Agree... Suppose our country was founded today -- and documents like the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were composed in MS Word, and saved on a CD or DVD.
Would people still be able to read them after as many years have passed from this own country's founding?
Not a chance! I use vi every day! It is a great piece of work!
To a Unix bigot like myself, VMS, well, sucks. (To be fair, it has been 10 years since I've been on a VMS box). I hated the way it always tried to be helpful by peering into, and converting between file formats. That is an application responsibility, not an operating system responsibility. I often used to wish for a "/just-leave-it-the-hell-alone" option!
Are yur zip drives are belong to us!
or the muzzies could be dancing around bonfires fueled by same in 20 years.
That's not entirely a bad idea. With the advent of easy virtualization, you could just create an image of the entire system as a runnable VM image. VMWare is the best things since sliced bread IMO.
Another thing I'd strongly advise is for both individuals and companies to use document formats that are actually open and fully documented. That would rule out all of the microsoft formats mentioned in the article. Store the full specs for the formats along with the VM images and you should be pretty much good to go for a lot of stuff.
Of course, you also have to deal with media obsolecence as well. Fortunately, we're making large leaps in data storage, so the space the data takes up that you have to store (in triplicate in separate locations btw) gets smaller with each generation. Approximately every 5 years, you should upgrade your entire archive to new media (again in triplicate at multiple locations) to avoid bit rot and entropy from destroying all your hard work.
Keeping up with data is hard, expensive work, and will be for quite some time.
Nope--I'm here also.
There are quite a few on this forum actually.
:wq!
And another here. I have to deal with so many different Unix platforms over telnet, vi is the only thing I can be sure is always there
Perhaps by then the hardware will be up to the demands of MS-Vista. :-)
You can actually see a physical indication of why this is so rather easily. Take a VHS tape, fast forward it to the end, then pop it out. Now take a tape, push Play, and let it run to the end. Take both tapes and look at the tape through the little window that shows the spindle where the tape has been run to. Chances are, on the take you ran quickly, you'll see ridges in the tape that indicate it wasn't all wound evenly on the spool. Look at the tape that was played all the way though and it will most likely appear smooth because it was wound a lot more evenly.
I like Joe better.
I swear, JAZ drives destroyed data more efficiently than a sledgehammer.
Evidently not.
I had the good fortune to graduate from the line editors (ed, TECO) of the 70's directly to EDT (under VMS on a VAX/11-780) in the early 80's. Tried vi under Unix (Sys5) but I loved the EDT keypad programmability so much that I hacked MicroEmacs into an EDT-ish clone and ported it to all my Unix, Windows, and MacOS systems into the 90's. Used emacs for a while after that, but FINALLY AFTER DECADES OF IGNORING IT, have finally come back to using vi more than anything else, because (as Sauron points out), it works in xterms over remote connections when nothing else will. And 80% of what I do these days is over xterms to remote systems. (Sauron said "telnet" but I'm sure he really meant "ssh".)
The other 20% is typing into TEXTAREA boxes on FreeRepublic posting pages using whatever editor my browser-du-jour and OS-du-jour give me.
There's a lot to be said for the common denominator, least or otherwise.
Amen.
About the only systems that I've used extensively over the years that I didn't have a copy of vi readily available were hp-1000 and hp-3000 systems running RTE-A and MPE-V respectively.
One thing that really kind of upsets me is that some lame nerd stole my copy of the O'reilly vi reference manual. That is total suckage. Every time I thumbed through that, I'd find something that vi can do that I didn't know about.
The only editor I've ever really liked as much as vi was Brief. There's some stuff that Brief would do (Though it was strictly DOS only), that I still haven't found anything else to replace it with.
Lowest of the low.
> Every time I thumbed through that, I'd find something that vi can do that I didn't know about.
There's tons I don't know about vi, so maybe I should find myself a copy.
I'm one of very few folks who still know and use 'ed' on occasion (typically, when a system hangs on boot due to fsck failing, you're in single-user, and all you've got to edit /etc/fstab is 'ed'. (Don't forget that initial 'P' to get a prompt!) You'd think I could translate that into vi easier than most, but there's some sort of mental block...
Then again, I shouldn't complain about 'ed'. There's always the REAL Sysadmin's editor, "cat >".
> The only editor I've ever really liked as much as vi was Brief. There's some stuff that Brief would do (Though it was strictly DOS only), that I still haven't found anything else to replace it with.
Brief was great on Microsoft systems, yep. On Windows I've gotten used to TextPad (www.textpad.com) which is quite decent. I've gotten Nedit to run on most of my Unix and Linux systems (it's a kick on the Mac under X11) and it's not bad.
One thing that still bites me with vi is that I got used to using cursor/keypad escape sequences in vi on a few modern systems, but not all my remote systems recognize them, and they interpret Esc[A as commands... so it's back to the HJKL home keys again... and I can't seem to keep straight which systems are "safe" for cursor keys... habits die hard.
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