Wait a minute ... Bugs in the wire! I repeat: Bugs in the wire! somebody call in an air strike ...
Posted on 06/30/2007 6:46:14 PM PDT by WmShirerAdmirer
The “patio gas” bomb defused in Haymarket would have generated a fireball the size of a house and a shock wave spreading out over a diameter of at least 400 yards, explosives experts said today.
The propane cylinders and petrol used in the device would have triggered a huge conflagration, as well as causing shrapnel and blast injuries from the exploding car chassis and the nails packed around the bomb, according to Hans Michels, Professor of Safety Engineering at Imperial College, London.
Just one 13kg propane canister — the type sold by Calor under the brand name “Patio Gas” — would release a highly flammable cloud of vapour that would spread over an area of 50 to 60 cubic metres before igniting into a still larger fireball, he said.
“The vapour cloud from one cylinder would fill the order of a big room, and when it ignited the effect would be even bigger,” Professor Michels said. “In addition to the power of the explosion and the shrapnel, you would get a fireball the size of a small house.”
As several propane or butane cylinders were recovered, the volume of the fireball would have been greater still, though it is impossible to calculate the size without knowing how much gas would have been involved.
Professor Michels, who has been an expert witness in explosives trials, said that although the police did not say whether high explosives were found in the car, another charge would probably have been used to ignite the petrol and gas.
An initiator such as triacetone triperoxide or TATP could have been used to detonate a main charge, such as the flour and hydrogen peroxide mixture allegedly used in the failed attacks of July 21, 2005. This would have blown up the car, scattering nails and shrapnel, as well as igniting the petrol and puncturing the gas cylinders.
The gas-fuelled fireball would have followed, though the timing of ignition would have affected the ultimate extent of the blast. It is possible that the petrol was intended as the main charge, but if so this would have resulted in a smaller explosion than if high explosive had been used.
The original explosion would have had to be large to penetrate the propane canisters, which are designed to withstand high-speed traffic accidents and fires.
Professor Michels said: “It is almost certain that the explosive device itself would have been sufficiently powerful not to just fragment the gas cylinders, but to destroy the car and possibly the front of buildings, with missiles, shrapnel, nails and burning petrol flung at very high velocity in the wake of the shock wave and the whole surrounded by a massive fireball resulting from the instantly evaporated and exploded propane and/or butane.
“It is also likely that the source of ignition and the explosive that should have set off the device was of the home made type, consisting of household materials now most commonly used by terrorists.”
Other experts suggested that the total blast could have been bigger still, depending on how many propane cylinders ignited and on whether high explosive was also used.
Andy Oppenheimer, editor of Nuclear, Biological and Chemical International, said the blast radius could have been anything from 200 years to half a mile. “It would have been a devastating explosion,” he said.
“With that amount of petrol and an unknown quantity of pressurised gas, the blast would have been about 200 yards. If high explosive was involved, the blast could have reached half a mile.
“Hundreds of people could have been injured if they had been in the area at the time. The knock-on effects of breaking glass are particularly devastating, for example.
“This would have been an explosion on the scale of those seen in the Middle East, although not as big as some that have been seen in Baghdad recently.”
The recovery of the intact bomb will also help forensic scientists to trace the bomb-makers, Professor Michels said. Propane cylinders carry a serial number which can be used to find the point of sale, and isotopic analysis could be used to trace any flour used in the main explosive charge.
Propane cylinders contain liquified propane, a volatile hydrocarbon, which would rapidly be transformed into a gas occupying 200 to 400 times the volume when released. This would mix with between 15 and 20 times that volume of air to produce an inflammable vapour cloud.
Brian Baker, director of the Association For Petroleum And Explosives Administration, said: “Propane is liquefied petroleum gas and patio heater gas is usually 97 per cent propane. Cylinders of this type of gas are readily available to the public and can be bought in places such as petrol stations and iron monger in particular.
“Propane is heavier than air when released, highly flammable and easy to ignite. When released in to the atmosphere and only a small amount is a required to cause an explosive condition and this is worse in a confined space when subject to an ignition source. Its explosive properties mean that 10 litres of the gas is equivalent to 2770 litres of flammable gas and air mix. There are controls on using this type of gas and this is why the industry gives lots of safety advice about use.”
That drain needs to be plugged. There’s another drain over Saudi Arabia. That’s where the brown ones come from. That’s what Tolkien was referring to when he wrote that there were two kinds of Orcs. In the end, whatever variety they are, they’re all just disgusting creatures that need to be controlled.
Larry C. Johnson is CEO and co-founder of BERG Associates, LLC, an international business-consulting firm that helps multinational corporations and financial institutions identify strategic opportunities, manage risks, and counter threats posed by terrorism and money laundering.Cum Laude, Phi Beta Kappa, Ph. D., *TWO* CIA Exceptional Performance Awards, Deputy Director in the U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism.Mr. Johnson, who worked previously with the Central Intelligence Agency and U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism, is a recognized expert in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, crisis and risk management.
Mr. Johnson has analyzed terrorist incidents for a variety of media including the Jim Lehrer News Hour, National Public Radio, ABC's Nightline, NBC's Today Show, the New York Times, CNN and the BBC. He was even employed as a Fox News Contributor during 2002. Mr. Johnson has authored several articles for publications, including Security Management Magazine, the New York Times, and The Los Angeles Times. He has lectured on terrorism and aviation security around the world, including the Center for Research and Strategic Studies at the Ecole Polytechnique in Paris, France. He represented the U.S. Government at the July 1996 OSCE Terrorism Conference in Vienna, Austria.
From 1989 until October 1993, Larry Johnson served as a Deputy Director in the U.S. State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism. He managed crisis response operations for terrorist incidents throughout the world and he helped organize and direct the US Government’s debriefing of US citizens held in Kuwait and Iraq, which provided vital intelligence on Iraqi operations following the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Mr. Johnson also participated in the investigation of the terrorist bombing of Pan Am 103. Under Mr. Johnson’s leadership the U.S. airlines and pilots agreed to match the US Government’s two million-dollar reward.
From 1985 through September 1989 Mr. Johnson worked for the Central Intelligence Agency. During his distinguished career, he received training in paramilitary operations, worked in the Directorate of Operations, served in the CIA’s Operation’s Center, and established himself as a prolific analyst in the Directorate of Intelligence. In his final year with the CIA he received two Exceptional Performance Awards.
Mr. Johnson is a member of the American Society for Industrial Security. He taught at The American University’s School of International Service (1979-1983) while working on a Ph.D. in political science. He has a M.S. degree in Community Development from the University of Missouri (1978), where he also received his B.S. degree in Sociology, graduating Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa in 1976.
Why Larry is as smart as Jimmy Carter, Nuclear Engineer and Nobel Prize Winner! And ex-President.
And as good looking and rock-solid-sane and principled as that other Nobel winner the late Yassar "Call me General" Arafat.
Yes, sirree, Larry sez
"Preliminary unconfirmed reports indicate a nuclear blast has occurred at Glasgow's international airport no one has seen the mushroom cloud or heard the blast but something by God is happening and it must be terrible ... Oh the humanity! ... I am good friends with one of the world's foremost explosives experts propane tanks and petrol (gas for us Americans) can produce a dandy flame and a mighty boom but these are not the tools for making a car bomb long the lines of what we see detonating on a daily basis in Iraq ... much of the cable news media reacts to this nonsense like a fifty year old guy on Viagra or Cialis--they pop major wood and the same warnings are appropriate--an erection lasting more than four hours may be harmful. Amen.Larry knows. Yeah. Yeah baby yeah. Larry knows.[Punctuation and paragraphs removed to better convey the Larry J mindset --bvw]
Larry's THE expert.
i agree with you... iran and SA are the twin motherships of Islamic Jihad and need to be annihilated asap for the sake of the planet.
See my last post on this thread. That “hack analyst” is Larry The Terrorism Expert Guy.
That would have been a huge firecracker if it had gone off as it was intended to....thank God it did not do so...
Yes, ever seen a propane tank blow? It’s a mini-mushroom cloud.
Gosh I wish the media could restrain themselves from giving step by step instructions on how terrorists could improve their bombs. I know the information is available for those who wish to find it, but making it easy to get isn’t helpful.
I am aware of the huge explosive power of propane, so I always tiptoe past it on the way to get my car.
Did he buy it from Hank Hill?
/propane joke
Not to mention how far out the nails would be blasted - wouldn't want to be the one to stop a few of those
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