Posted on 06/30/2007 11:32:18 AM PDT by Calpernia
GOP presidential hopeful Mitt Romney, courting Iowa conservatives, found himself answering questions Saturday about the role his Mormon faith would play should he win the race.
Romney told one questioner "we have exactly the same values" and said there is no religious litmus test for candidates. The former Massachusetts governor dismissed suggestions of a conflict between his religion and his ability to govern. He also hastened to offer assurances of his faith.
"The Bible for me is the word of God," Romney said. "I also believe that Jesus Christ is my savior."
The questions arose as Romney prepared to join five other Republican candidates at a forum sponsored by two of the most important forces in Iowa Republican politics _ the Iowa Christian Alliance and Iowans for Tax Relief.
Many conservative Christians are quietly nervous about Romney's religion and the issue surfaced as Romney opened his campaigning at a forum in Pella, about 40 miles south of Des Moines.
Mary Van Steenis asked Romney how he would ponder important decisions as president and which source of inspiration he would seek.
"Where would the Bible be in that process?" she asked. "Would it be above the Book of Mormon or would it be beneath it?"
"I don't know that there's any conflict at all between the values of great faiths like mine, like yours, like other faiths, like Jews who don't believe in the New Testament," Romney said.
"People of faith have different doctrines and different beliefs on various topics of a theological nature. But in terms of what it is we are going to believe and also based on our values for our country, I think we come from the same place," Romney said.
The answer did not satisfy Van Steenis.
"I asked if you had to look to one source what would it be? He didn't really respond to that," she told reporters after the event. "This is serious to me."
Romney said he thinks that as people "look at me and my values and look at my family and myself they'll recognize that we have exactly the same values. This is a nation where people come from different faiths, different doctrines and different churches."
Romney aide Eric Fehrnstrom quickly issued a statement to reporters that said Romney took the oath of office as governor on his family Bible.
"He swore to follow the constitution and uphold the laws of the land," said Fehrnstrom. "That would continue to be his highest duty as president."
Some of Romney's critics says he has shifted his views on positions such as abortion and gay rights as he moves from governor to presidential contender.
Romney sought to assure activists of his hard-line views. He said the landmark Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion in 1973 should be overturned and states should be allowed to decide the issue.
He also said he fought an overwhelmingly Democratic Legislature in Boston by pushing for the death sentence during his time in office.
Romney and his rivals _ minus top tier candidates Rudy Giuliani and John McCain _ were scheduled to appear at the forum. Joining Romney were Tommy Thompson, Mike Huckabee, Sam Brownback, Tom Tancredo and Jim Gilmore.
>>>Romney told one questioner "we have exactly the same values"
Well Mr. Romney. Since Joseph Smith thinks Jesus was born in Jerusalem...I tend to take anything else he wrote in your book with a grain of salt.
But, if you win Presidency, and the Mormon's don't recognize anyone else as Christians that aren't of the Mormon faith, what will you do with the Executive Orders that extend the Holy See as an Observer to the UN?
Moral Absolute ping?
Mormon's don't recognize anyone else as Christians that aren't of the Mormon faith ...
Can you provide some sources for your allegations? You should learn a LITTLE bit of research about a religion before you bash it, so I'll do what you should have done for yourself. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has their website, where they have the Articles of Faith listed for all to see.
Source. I suggest you take a look at number 11 in particular.
That may be true; but they are live at the Iowan Conference now. I’m hoping someone there might ask this as a follow up question.
Is he going to ban electricity and telephones? What about automobiles?
The Mormon church states that the Church Christ founded became increasingly corrupted by pagan ideas and the keys of authority of the holy priesthood were withdrawn from the earth. Therefore, they has been no no valid baptisms, no laying on of hands for the receipt of the Holy Ghost, no blessings of any kind, and no administration of sacred ordinances.
My statement: Since Joseph Smith thinks Jesus was born in Jerusalem ...
Source: Alma 7:10 [Jesus] “shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem, which is in the land of our forefathers”
>>>What about automobiles?
That is an interesting thought since a lot of states have been receiving grant monies for Transit Villages.
More on Transit Villages:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1776511/posts?page=11#11
That goes along with the entire Carbon Credit thing and the UN.
But, I do care greatly that he is so lacking in understanding that he doesn't know that no State has the right to alienate the God-given right to life.
I will never cast a vote for Mitt Romney. Ever.
As I’ve said, the fact that Romney is Mormon doesn’t bother me in itself.
But I am bothered by his shifty way of dodging questions. We see a pretty good example of it right here.
>>”I asked if you had to look to one source what would it be? He didn’t really respond to that,” she told reporters after the event. “This is serious to me.” <<
No, he didn’t answer the question honestly. On most basic political issues, Mormons are pretty conservative and have shown themselves to be so for the most part. But their faith is NOT factually compatible with Christianity, either Catholic or Protestant. Romney’s faith is his business, as long as he’s not a Muslim or a crazy cultist. But his answer to a perfectly reasonable question is distinctly shifty.
Which authority would you put first, Mr. Romney, the Bible, or the Book of Mormon? We know the answer, but he prefers not to say it.
>>>I don’t care about his LDS membership.
My question in post 1 in reference to it is a darn good one though.
>>>As I’ve said, the fact that Romney is Mormon doesn’t bother me in itself.
>>>>But their faith is NOT factually compatible with Christianity, either Catholic or Protestant. Romney’s faith is his business, as long as he’s not a Muslim or a crazy cultist. But his answer to a perfectly reasonable question is distinctly shifty.
And what about the Holy See Executive Order?
This would indeed be a 'blunder' if Joseph Smith were the author of the Book of Mormon, but the Dead Sea Scrolls appear to support the Book of Mormon's allegations. So, whom to believe?
We have what the Mormon's believe to be a modern day prophet, or we have the First Council of Nicea, who took upon themselves the chore of editing the bible, and who chose which books were to be compiled into the modern day bible.
Bear in mind, Joseph Smith had a 2nd or 3rd grade formal education. He dictated the Book of Mormon from plates. For someone who can 'barely' read; to translate approximately 10 pages a day of sacred text to english, for a period just over 60 days - is a feat in and of itself. Let alone for an unschooled 20-something old farm boy. Now let's add to this the (growing) list of 'inaccuracies' that are being confirmed in modern times.
Nothing like quoting from the actual bogus manuscript JS conjured up.
Hodar, you wanted a source, there ya go! Will you be wise enough to check it out as well as the other false things JS wrote and said? I thought "Prophets" weren't supposed to be able to get it wrong, unless of course they are conning for false profits.
Moroni never had it so good!
Your debate of the faith is for a Religion thread. My questions are on whether he will keep the executive orders in place for the Pope.
You can pull tit for tat all day with versus. I’m not interested.
Romney is no worse than G.W. Bush, for whom I voted twice. Unlike Guliani and McIsane, I’m actually willing to vote for him if wins the Primary.
But I won’t be votin’ for him in the primary.
Romney Questioned by Conservatives...
They all wanted to know which planet they were going to get for their very own.
That "farmboy" of yours was a KNOWN "treasure hunter," "glass looker" and was arrested for it!
Godness, I don't think I've ever seen someone so blantantly willing to be hoodwinked!
What amazes me is how un-skepticle and un-questioning Mormons are, in cotrast to the "noble Bereans" of Acts 17 who made Paul's own teaching stand the test of the scriptures!
Mormon doctrine flagrantly violates the scriptures. Sources? This took all of about 30 seconds:
"Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers.
Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.)
Devil, the
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
God
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.) "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans..." (D&C 130:22).
God, becoming a god
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.)
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
God, many gods
There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)
God, mother goddess
There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.)
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.)
God, Trinity
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)
Heaven
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348. Holy Ghost, the The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, (Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, page 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179.)
Jesus
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115).
"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, pg. 150).
Joseph Smith
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.)
Pre-existence
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.)
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)"
Better yet: http://www.bible.ca/mor-god-had-sex-with-mary.htm
Now from the Dead Sea Scrolls comes an even more specific occurrence of the phrase "land of Jerusalem" that gives insight into its usage and meaning - in a text that indirectly links the phrase to the Jerusalem of Lehi's time.
Robert Eisenmann and Michael Wise, in The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered (1993), discuss one document that they have provisionally named "Pseudo-Jeremiah" (scroll 4Q385). The beginning of the damaged text reads as follows:
...Jeremiah the Prophet before the Lord [...w]ho were taken captive from the land of Jerusalem [Eretz Yerushalayim, column 1, line 2] (p. 58). In their discussion of this text, Eisenmann and Wise elaborate on the significance of the phrase "land of Jerusalem, which they see as an equivalent for Judah (Yehud), :
"Another interesting reference is to the 'land of Jerusalem' in Line 2 of Fragment 1. This greatly enhances the sense of historicity of the whole, since Judah or , 'Yehud' (the name of the area on coins from the Persian period) by this time consisted of little more than Jerusalem and its immediate environs.," (p. 57) Based on the evidence from Qumran, and in the words of Eisenmann and Wise, we can conclude that consistent usage of such language among a people of Israel who fled Jerusalem at the time of Jeremiah also "greatly enhances the sense of historicity" of the Book of Mormon.
Source: Alma 7:10 [Jesus] “shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem, which is in the land of our forefathers”
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