Posted on 06/25/2007 12:39:01 PM PDT by ZGuy
Last week, a German court sentenced a 55-year old Lutheran pastor to one year in jail for “Volksverhetzung” (incitement of the people) because he compared the killing of the unborn in contemporary Germany to the holocaust. Next week, the Council of Europe is going to vote on a resolution imposing Darwinism as Europe’s official ideology. The European governments are asked to fight the expression of creationist opinions, such as young earth and intelligent design theories. According to the Council of Europe these theories are “undemocratic” and “a threat to human rights.”
Without legalized abortion the number of German children would increase annually by at least 150,000 – which is the number of legal abortions in birth dearth Germany. Pastor Johannes Lerle compared the killing of the unborn to the killing of the Jews in Auschwitz during the Second World War. On 14 June, a court in Erlangen ruled that, in doing so, the pastor had “incited the people” because his statement was a denial of the holocaust of the Jews in Nazi-Germany. Hence, Herr Lerle was sentenced to one year in jail. Earlier, he had already spent eight months in jail for calling abortionists “professional killers” – an allegation which the court ruled to be slanderous because, according to the court, the unborn are not humans.
Other German courts convicted pro-lifers for saying that “in abortion clinics, life unworthy of living is being killed,” because this terminology evoked Hitler’s euthanasia program, which used the same language. In 2005, a German pro-lifer, Günter Annen, was sentenced to 50 days in jail for saying “Stop unjust [rechtswidrige] abortions in [medical] practice,” because, according to the court, the expression “unjust” is understood by laymen as meaning illegal, which abortions are not.
Volksverhetzung is a crime which the Nazis often invoked against their enemies and which contemporary Germany also uses to intimidate homeschoolers. Soon, the German authorities will be able to use the same charge against people who question Darwin’s evolution theory.
Indeed, next Tuesday, the Council of Europe (CoE), Europe’s main human-rights body, will vote on a proposal which advocates the fight against creationism, “young earth” and “intelligent design” in its 47 member states.
According to a report of the CoE’s Parliamentary Assembly, creationists are dangerous “religious fundamentalists” who propagate “forms of religious extremism” and “could become a threat to human rights.” The report adds that the acceptance of the science of evolutionism “is crucial to the future of our societies and our democracies.”
“Creationism, born of the denial of the evolution of species through natural selection, was for a long time an almost exclusively American phenomenon,” the report says.
“Today creationist theories are tending to find their way into Europe and their spread is affecting quite a few Council of Europe member states. […] [T]his is liable to encourage the development of all manner of fundamentalism and extremism, synonymous with attacks of utmost virulence on human rights. The total rejection of science is definitely one of the most serious threats to human rights and civic rights. […] The war on the theory of evolution and on its proponents most often originates in forms of religious extremism which are closely allied to extreme right-wing political movements. The creationist movements possess real political power. The fact of the matter, and this has been exposed on several occasions, is that the advocates of strict creationism are out to replace democracy by theocracy. [...] If we are not careful, the values that are the very essence of the Council of Europe will be under direct threat from creationist fundamentalists.”
According to the CoE report, America and Australia are already on their way towards becoming such undemocratic theocracies where human and civic rights are endangered. Creationism is “well-developed in the English-speaking countries, especially the United States and Australia,” the report states.
“While most curricula in Europe today unashamedly teach evolution as a recognised scientific theory, the same does not apply to the United States. In July 2005, the Pew Research Center conducted a poll that showed that 64% of Americans favoured the teaching of intelligent design alongside the theory of evolution and that 38% would support the total abandonment of the teaching of evolution in publicly owned schools. The American President George W. Bush supports the principle of teaching both intelligent design and the theory of evolution. At the moment, 20 of the 50 American states are facing potential adjustments of their school curricula in favour of intelligent design. Many people think that this phenomenon only affects the United States and that, even if it is not possible to be indifferent to what is happening on the other side of the Atlantic, it is not the Council of Europe’s role to deal with this issue. That, however, is not the case. On the contrary, it would seem crucial for us to take the appropriate precautions in our 47 member states.”
Though one may disagree with people who take the Book of Genesis literally (believing that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh), surely secularist political organizations telling people what they may or may not believe, constitute a far greater threat to human rights than religious institutions telling their faithful how to vote. In the voting booth people are free to do what they like, whilst in contemporary Europe people are no longer free to publicly voice their own, deeply felt opinions in public.
In Germany, believing abortion to be as murderous as the holocaust is a crime, and educating your own children is a crime too. In France, saying that “homosexual behaviour endangers the survival of humanity” is a crime, and so is the distribution of pork soup to the poor. In Belgium, speaking out against immigration is a crime.
In the latest issue of the Dutch conservative magazine Bitter Lemon the Dutch author Erik van Goor writes that European courts are silencing conservative and orthodox citizens. Freedom of speech no longer exist, says van Goor.
“While many in the West still idolize the second-hand fighters for free speech, such as [Ayaan] Hirsi Ali and Theo van Gogh, the true victims of curtailment are deliberately kept under wraps. Hirsi Ali, [Pim] Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh were not curtailed by the state or by court, Johannes Lerle is. The former voiced mere opinions – expressions of a public opinion which one may or may not value or believe. The latter – Dr Lerle – shows that what is at stake is not merely opinions, but a moral order which is being questioned; a reality of life and death which is at risk.”
Hirsi Ali, Fortuyn and van Gogh did not defend Europe’s traditional Christian moral order. People such as Johannes Lerle and Christian Vanneste, the French parliamentarian who was convicted for “homophobia,” do. The latter are being persecuted by Western Europe’s political regimes – a phenomenon which is ignored completely by the Western mainstream media, who participate in the persecution.
Do you find this a trait confined strictly to Christians?
No, I’m calling you dishonest for taking my quote about holocaust deniers out of context. I was referring to freedom of speech. You tried to make it seem like I am ambivalent or condone holocaust denial. Neither of which is true. That makes you dishonest.
“Reason for the high punishment are also Lerles six previous convictions, which entailed two prison stays with altogether eight one half months.
They took place all because of alleged offense, because it had denounced in the past the child murder in the nut/mother body under denomination of the names of the authors and their supporters.”
It does appear that he calls into question certain aspects of the holocaust (such as making soap from bones), but he is not denying the holocaust as a whole, otherwise he would not be comparing abortion to it. But one thing seems clear, this pastor is being targeted for his anti-abortion activities, and they are using his controversial statements about the holocaust as both an excuse and to engender public support for their decision. Having said that, I support his unalienable right to free speech, but I abhor his stance on the holocaust. In short, he is compromised and therefore not worthy of his martyr status. But make no mistake, given his six previous convictions, the German socialists are going after Pastor Lerle because of his anti-abortion activities (to include protesting abortion sites). And however compromised he might be, he is correct to compare the German government and the EU generally of Marxist materialism (and it will only get worse for the unlucky inhabitants of the socialist EU collective from here IMHO).
“Reason for the high punishment are also Lerles six previous convictions, which entailed two prison stays with altogether eight one half months.
They took place all because of alleged offense, because it had denounced in the past the child murder in the nut/mother body under denomination of the names of the authors and their supporters.”
It does appear that he calls into question certain aspects of the holocaust (such as making soap from bones), but he is not denying the holocaust as a whole, otherwise he would not be comparing abortion to it. But one thing seems clear, this pastor is being targeted for his anti-abortion activities, and they are using his controversial statements about the holocaust as both an excuse and to engender public support for their decision. Having said that, I support his unalienable right to free speech, but I abhor his stance on the holocaust. In short, he is compromised and therefore not worthy of his martyr status. But make no mistake, given his six previous convictions, the German socialists are going after Pastor Lerle because of his anti-abortion activities (to include protesting abortion sites). And however compromised he might be, he is correct to compare the German government and the EU generally of Marxist materialism (and it will only get worse for the unlucky inhabitants of the socialist EU collective from here IMHO).
“Reason for the high punishment are also Lerles six previous convictions, which entailed two prison stays with altogether eight one half months.
They took place all because of alleged offense, because it had denounced in the past the child murder in the nut/mother body under denomination of the names of the authors and their supporters.”
It does appear that he calls into question certain aspects of the holocaust (such as making soap from bones), but he is not denying the holocaust as a whole, otherwise he would not be comparing abortion to it. But one thing seems clear, this pastor is being targeted for his anti-abortion activities, and they are using his controversial statements about the holocaust as both an excuse and to engender public support for their decision. Having said that, I support his unalienable right to free speech, but I abhor his stance on the holocaust. In short, he is compromised and therefore not worthy of his martyr status. But make no mistake, given his six previous convictions, the German socialists are going after Pastor Lerle because of his anti-abortion activities (to include protesting abortion sites). And however compromised he might be, he is correct to compare the German government and the EU generally of Marxist materialism (and it will only get worse for the unlucky inhabitants of the socialist EU collective from here IMHO).
Here’s something on Pastor Lerle from 2002. Again, the German socialists were going after him and his compatriots for their anti-abortion activities (comparing abortion doctors to genocidal Nazis, professional killers, murderers, etc):
Truth can be dangerous, another German, the theologian Dr. Johannes Lerle learned when he referred to an abortionist as a “professional killer” and was given a jail sentence for slander. For producing a leaflet with the words: “In North Clinic, life unworthy of living is being killed,” a German family was forbidden to use that terminology, because it evoked Hitler’s euthanasia program, which used the same language. A third man, Günter Annen, was forbidden to say, “Stop unjust [rechtswidrige] abortions in [medical] practice,” because the expression “unjust” was understood by laymen as meaning illegal, which abortions are not. Dr. Lerle, a theologian, was sentenced once again, this time to seven and one half months of prison2 for saying that termination of pregnancy is what it really is, the brutal, painful murder of innocent human beings in the early stage of their wonderful development, arranged by the Creator (Psalm 139). These arrests and injunctions appear to violate Article 2 of the German Constitution, where we read, “Everyone has the right to life and bodily integrity.” As a consequence, although Dr. Lerle is still in prison, the Federal Constitutional Court has ruled that protesters may indeed carry signs reading “Child murder in North Clinic,” and even “Holocaust yesterday, Babycaust today.”
http://www.profam.org/pub/rs/rs_1904.htm
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It is a suppresion of speech and fully allowed there under their laws; if it were happening here, would your opinion be the same?
Apparently, you are just as slow on the uptake and/or dishonest as the other Darwinists on FR. If you go back and read my posts, I was clearly defending what should be Pastor Lerle’s unalienable right to free speech, preferring instead to have his words judged by the court of public opinion, rather than a court of law. For once you grant such power to the state, it is only a matter of time before your own opinions become criminalized (First they came for...etc, etc). Indeed, if Europe continues down its present road of criminalizing speech, it’s only a matter of time before virtually EVERYONE is considered a criminal (excepting, perhaps, whatever dictatorial regime happens to be in power). I mean, c’mon now, is it really your contention that someone should be put in jail for expressing non-violent/politically unpopular opinions?
Germany seems to have unwittingly solved the energy crisis!
As soon as they outlaw gravity people will float about freely, without need of cars.
In case you have forgotten, they voted in Hitler. So, given your logic, I guess you wouldn’t have a problem with that either. Our founding fathers were clear that unfettered democracy leads to tyranny.
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
- Benjamin Franklin
“Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority...the Constitution was made to guard against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.”
- Noah Webster
When did the posting of scientific information get equated to dishonesty?
==This thread is about a false claim that this jackass was silenced for his disagreeing with evolution and holding pro-life views and that is a bald faced lie. He was sentenced for being a holocaust denier.
I’m seriously starting to doubt whether all your synapses are firing. First, unless you have a link that you have yet to post, Pastor Lerle is not strictly speaking a holocaust denier. If you go back and read your own links he acknowledges that the Nazi genocide is a matter of public record. For reasons unknown to me, he is quibbling over minutia such as numbers murdered at Aushwitz, whether Jews were really turned into soap, etc. And as for your erroneous assertion that the German socialists are not going after him because of his anti-abortion activities, I have already posted a link from 1992 that establishes a pattern of just that. But since your short-term memory seems to be having trouble, here it is again:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1856051/posts?page=106#106
You obviously have no idea what we are talking about. Go back and read the thread and you will see why.
Minutia relative to the totality of the horror that was the holocaust. And once again, I have demonstrated to you (over and over now) that the German socialists have been going after Pastor Lerle for his pro-life activities for years. And, as this (umteenth) article once again demonstrates, in this particular case Pastor Lerle has been labeled a holocaust DENIER for comparing abortion to the holocaust. And yet, if he is indeed a holocaust denier, there would be no point in the comparison (unless he’s trying to say abortion isn’t happening in Germany):
“Pastor Johannes Lerle compared the annual murder of 150,000 babies through abortion in Germany to the murder of thousands of innocent Jews in Auschwitz. The court, which consisted of no jury and a single judge, ruled that this statement made Lerle a holocaust denier.”
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07062606.html
Let’s face it, your real beef with this guy is that he’s pro-life and a Creationist. And you have also demonstrated over and over that you are willing to condone the use of force to silence those you disagree with. That’s a great track record you’ve got going there.
==Just think for a moment, if you’re capable of that. Would the German government put a guy in jail for comparing abortion to the holocaust?
Based on the available information, the answer is yes.
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