Thank you for your candid response. I appreciate your beliefs & the fervor in which you follow them even though I ardently disagree w/ some of them.
Here’s what I’m sincerely trying to understand, you believe the bible to be the word of the Lord & rightfully so. But, if I understand you correctly, you also believe that the bible is it, all that we need as far as the spoken word is concerned. Nothing should be added to or subtracted from, correct?
You also state that you agree w/ the statements of the historic creeds “having found them to represent that which is revealed in scripture”. Yet I think you’ll agree w/ me that many of the opinions set forth in those creeds (especially the Athanasian creed that gets much more specific about the Trinity)are absolutely nowhere to be found in the bible, anywhere! I would challenge you to recite scripture that talks about even half of what is found in that creed. Now, that in and of itself would not neccessarily disuede some from believing in the correctness & divinity of that document. The fact that those who where called of man to put that document together claimed absolutely no inspiration or revelation in doing so could.
Remember, as I stated earlier, these men were not unanimous in their decision. They fought bitterly at times & were never all of one accord. I find it intriguing at times that some base so much of their faith on the writtings of those who openly claimed no inspiration but relied soley on their own intellect & reasoning as to what the bible meant. Something the Lord warned repeatedly against in the bible.
You say “Historically, they grew more specific in the face of heresy and doctrinal errors “. You are abolutely correct. The Apostles were long gone by then & the fundemental organization as set up by the Lord & continued by the Apostles long since compromised. The leaders at approx. 300 & 500 a.d. when these creeds were developed could have called upon the Lord for direction but instead chose to believe that the heavens were closed & that they had no choice but to go it alone.
Sad from my perspective. I believe that back then as we do now, one can call upon the Lord for answers to those kind of questions, & then actually receive answers! Am I heritical for daring not to walk in lock step w/ those of yester year who didn’t even ask the Lord & whose assertions are NOT backed by the writtings of the bible? I’ll let the Lord judge that one despite the efforts of some here to do that for him.
You intimate that the LDS faith is a new one & you state a lot of other things associated w/ that. Christ’s church was somewhat of a new thing according to many of the Jews of the time. They said many of the same things back then. We need no more scripture, we need no prophet, we are learned & know much & we will teach you what is needed. Christ was called a heretic as well. I’ll count that as being in good company!
As I said before, I appreciate you zeal towards the Lord & the conviction you have. I also appreciate your sharing your feelings w/ me. I’ve shared some of my feelings as well. I hope they will be recieved as they were inteded to be.
Have a great weekend my friend
Reno911 (silly TV show my son has watched at times...),
“Yet I think you’ll agree w/ me that many of the opinions set forth in those creeds (especially the Athanasian creed that gets much more specific about the Trinity)are absolutely nowhere to be found in the bible, anywhere!”
No, I do not agree with you Reno.
“I would challenge you to recite scripture that talks about even half of what is found in that creed. “
Though voluminous, that is not a difficult task, friend. The
difficult task rested on those church leaders who had to
synthesize it into a creed in order to fight the heresies that
were raging and threatening the unity of the Church.
“The fact that those who where called of man to put that document together claimed absolutely no inspiration or revelation in doing so could.”
I would refer you to the definition of a “creed”.
“these men were not unanimous in their decision”
Think about what you have written here Reno. Historically,
there arose men who were teaching new doctrines that distorted
the beliefs of the Church. Many were starting to follow them
into error. The leaders of the church got together to state
what the Church believed. Do you think that those promoting
heresy would agree? Of course, the vote would not be
unanimous. Have you ever read about the first Church council
in Acts 15??? Did that strike you as a unanimous get together?
“The Apostles were long gone by then & the fundemental organization as set up by the Lord & continued by the Apostles long since compromised.”
Now, you are giving me line and verse from mormonism - not
from history. So no, having studied too much church history,
I do not agree with your statement.
“The leaders at approx. 300 & 500 a.d. when these creeds were developed could have called upon the Lord for direction but instead chose to believe that the heavens were closed & that they had no choice but to go it alone.”
And you know for a fact that these leaders did not pray???
That strikes me as bizarre, given that every church leader
I’ve ever met, prays. Again, I think you’ve slipped into
Smithville - not history.
“I believe that back then as we do now, one can call upon the Lord for answers to those kind of questions, & then actually receive answers!”
I agree we should pray and ask God for wisdom. Where I part
ways with young smith is when the “answers” conflict with
God’s revealed Word. At that point, the “answers” did not
come from God.
“You intimate that the LDS faith is a new one & you state a lot of other things associated w/ that. Christ’s church was somewhat of a new thing according to many of the Jews of the time. They said many of the same things back then. We need no more scripture, we need no prophet, we are learned & know much & we will teach you what is needed. Christ was called a heretic as well. I’ll count that as being in good company!”
You flatter yourself. Christ didn’t come to reject scripture,
He came to fulfill it - and He did. To believe the smithville
cult, you have to believe that Christ was incapable of
keeping His promise to be with the Church until the end of
the age. That His promise that even the gates of Hell could
not stand against it. That His death and resurrection is
inadequate for salvation. Not a chance.
have a great weekend,
ampu
Could you point these out; exactly?