Reno911 (silly TV show my son has watched at times...),
“Yet I think you’ll agree w/ me that many of the opinions set forth in those creeds (especially the Athanasian creed that gets much more specific about the Trinity)are absolutely nowhere to be found in the bible, anywhere!”
No, I do not agree with you Reno.
“I would challenge you to recite scripture that talks about even half of what is found in that creed. “
Though voluminous, that is not a difficult task, friend. The
difficult task rested on those church leaders who had to
synthesize it into a creed in order to fight the heresies that
were raging and threatening the unity of the Church.
“The fact that those who where called of man to put that document together claimed absolutely no inspiration or revelation in doing so could.”
I would refer you to the definition of a “creed”.
“these men were not unanimous in their decision”
Think about what you have written here Reno. Historically,
there arose men who were teaching new doctrines that distorted
the beliefs of the Church. Many were starting to follow them
into error. The leaders of the church got together to state
what the Church believed. Do you think that those promoting
heresy would agree? Of course, the vote would not be
unanimous. Have you ever read about the first Church council
in Acts 15??? Did that strike you as a unanimous get together?
“The Apostles were long gone by then & the fundemental organization as set up by the Lord & continued by the Apostles long since compromised.”
Now, you are giving me line and verse from mormonism - not
from history. So no, having studied too much church history,
I do not agree with your statement.
“The leaders at approx. 300 & 500 a.d. when these creeds were developed could have called upon the Lord for direction but instead chose to believe that the heavens were closed & that they had no choice but to go it alone.”
And you know for a fact that these leaders did not pray???
That strikes me as bizarre, given that every church leader
I’ve ever met, prays. Again, I think you’ve slipped into
Smithville - not history.
“I believe that back then as we do now, one can call upon the Lord for answers to those kind of questions, & then actually receive answers!”
I agree we should pray and ask God for wisdom. Where I part
ways with young smith is when the “answers” conflict with
God’s revealed Word. At that point, the “answers” did not
come from God.
“You intimate that the LDS faith is a new one & you state a lot of other things associated w/ that. Christ’s church was somewhat of a new thing according to many of the Jews of the time. They said many of the same things back then. We need no more scripture, we need no prophet, we are learned & know much & we will teach you what is needed. Christ was called a heretic as well. I’ll count that as being in good company!”
You flatter yourself. Christ didn’t come to reject scripture,
He came to fulfill it - and He did. To believe the smithville
cult, you have to believe that Christ was incapable of
keeping His promise to be with the Church until the end of
the age. That His promise that even the gates of Hell could
not stand against it. That His death and resurrection is
inadequate for salvation. Not a chance.
have a great weekend,
ampu
I guess you reject my challenge. That’s fine. Your understanding on how meetings usually go is a correct one. However, is that how Christ conducted his meetings? His word, as should be, was final. Just as it was always w/ his mouthpiece the prophets. In Acts 15, you’ll find that Peter, who was chosen as the Lord’s mouthpiece put the matter to rest after a discussion about the Holy Ghost. His word was final b/c he was chosen & set apart by the Lord (not by man incidentally). The Apostles always sought the Lord’s intervention on doctrinal matters as he taught them to do.
You don’t agree that the foundation had been changed? In 300 a.d., who was the prophet, who were the apostles? Today, has the scacrament changed? Baptism by emersion? Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost? Did the Lord change those ordinances or did man?
Review the history of those meetings & you will see that although they may have prayed, they certainly didn’t pray to know His will. They believed then as many do today that the heavens were closed to revelation. Something Christ never taught as His way. In fact he taught the exact opposite.
Also, you’re right, Christ did not come to reject scripture but to fulfill it. However, many of the jews at the time thought he was rejecting scripture. That was my parallel.
Bottom line, if you choose to follow the wisdom of man, or men in this case, sobeit. I choose to follow the bible & Christ’s teachings & go directly to the source for my wisdom on these matters. You would agree, that is what he taught, right?