Replies

Reno911,

I think I have been abundantly clear with sharing
my personal experience and through the basis of
our discussions here that my beliefs derive directly
from the Bible - the 66 Books we see wrapped in
leather. The basis of my belief and my faith do
not derive from a historical creed. However, if it
does anything for your understanding, I agree with
the statements of the historic Church creeds, having
found them to represent that which is revealed in
scripture.

Do you know what a creed is, btw?

creed [Lat. credo=I believe], summary of basic doctrines of faith.

They are simply a summary of what the Church Universal believes, based on the Bible.

The historic creeds, starting with those in scipture, like
that I posted above, and the early Apostle’s Creed and
on are summaries of what the Bible teaches. Historically,
they grew more specific in the face of heresy and doctrinal
errors - such as those that made the same doctrinal errors
as mormonism. Amazingly, I know of no other cult that includes
as many separate heresies that the Church already condemned,
than mormonism. It must hold the record...

best,
ampu

PS - as a personal aside to you Reno, I have always been
amused that there is criticism of the date of the Nicean
Creed, since that is exactly the point in history that
certain heresies were troubling the Church... yet mormonism,
is a created religion dating from ~1830! Mormonism strains
at the relatively early dated gnat of the Church Creeds and
swallows the camel of a late blooming cult! :-)

Are you familiar with the historical time of the rise of
mormonism in America (along with Jehovah’s Witnesses and
Christian Science)? Are you familiar with the religious
influences in the region of the US that Joseph Smith grew
up with? Once you see those, you realize where he got many
of the ideas of “restoration”, etc.

Thank you for your candid response. I appreciate your beliefs & the fervor in which you follow them even though I ardently disagree w/ some of them.

Here’s what I’m sincerely trying to understand, you believe the bible to be the word of the Lord & rightfully so. But, if I understand you correctly, you also believe that the bible is it, all that we need as far as the spoken word is concerned. Nothing should be added to or subtracted from, correct?

You also state that you agree w/ the statements of the historic creeds “having found them to represent that which is revealed in scripture”. Yet I think you’ll agree w/ me that many of the opinions set forth in those creeds (especially the Athanasian creed that gets much more specific about the Trinity)are absolutely nowhere to be found in the bible, anywhere! I would challenge you to recite scripture that talks about even half of what is found in that creed. Now, that in and of itself would not neccessarily disuede some from believing in the correctness & divinity of that document. The fact that those who where called of man to put that document together claimed absolutely no inspiration or revelation in doing so could.

Remember, as I stated earlier, these men were not unanimous in their decision. They fought bitterly at times & were never all of one accord. I find it intriguing at times that some base so much of their faith on the writtings of those who openly claimed no inspiration but relied soley on their own intellect & reasoning as to what the bible meant. Something the Lord warned repeatedly against in the bible.

You say “Historically, they grew more specific in the face of heresy and doctrinal errors “. You are abolutely correct. The Apostles were long gone by then & the fundemental organization as set up by the Lord & continued by the Apostles long since compromised. The leaders at approx. 300 & 500 a.d. when these creeds were developed could have called upon the Lord for direction but instead chose to believe that the heavens were closed & that they had no choice but to go it alone.

Sad from my perspective. I believe that back then as we do now, one can call upon the Lord for answers to those kind of questions, & then actually receive answers! Am I heritical for daring not to walk in lock step w/ those of yester year who didn’t even ask the Lord & whose assertions are NOT backed by the writtings of the bible? I’ll let the Lord judge that one despite the efforts of some here to do that for him.

You intimate that the LDS faith is a new one & you state a lot of other things associated w/ that. Christ’s church was somewhat of a new thing according to many of the Jews of the time. They said many of the same things back then. We need no more scripture, we need no prophet, we are learned & know much & we will teach you what is needed. Christ was called a heretic as well. I’ll count that as being in good company!

As I said before, I appreciate you zeal towards the Lord & the conviction you have. I also appreciate your sharing your feelings w/ me. I’ve shared some of my feelings as well. I hope they will be recieved as they were inteded to be.

Have a great weekend my friend