Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
(AP) SALT LAKE CITY -- Mitt Romney said Saturday that criticism of his Mormon religion by rival GOP presidential campaigns is happening too frequently.
“Clearly, any derogatory comments about anyone’s faith—those comments are troubling. The fact they keep on coming up is even more troubling,” Romney said during a fundraising trip in the home state of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Mormon church is one of the fastest-growing religions and claims about 12.5 million members worldwide. But many evangelical Christians in crucial primary states such as Iowa and South Carolina consider the faith a cult.
Romney’s remarks follow an apology from GOP rival John McCain’s campaign for comments about the Mormon church allegedly made this year by a volunteer.
Also recently, Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, issued a similar apology for a campaign worker’s e-mail to Iowa Republican leaders that was an apparent attempt to draw unfavorable scrutiny of Romney’s religion. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani apologized after the New York Sun noted that a campaign aide had forwarded to a blogger a story about unofficial Mormon lore. Legend has it that a Mormon would save the Constitution, the story said. The campaign aide passed the story along with a note: “Thought you’d find this interesting.”
Romney said in a large presidential race there always will be some volunteers or workers who cannot be controlled. But he said the difference between derogatory comments that originated from the McCain campaign and others is that the Arizona senator has not personally apologized to him.
“In the case of Senator Brownback and Mayor Giuliani ... they called immediately. They each spoke with me personally. I don’t have any issue with that at all,” Romney said.
He said McCain “can do whatever he feels is the right thing. There’s no need for me to suggest how people respond to things that go on in the campaign.”
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said the McCain campaign has already apologized.
“It’s a very sincere apology. There is absolutely no place for those type of comments in our campaign,” he said.
Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, said he had not spoken with McCain since the last presidential debate, on June 5.
Romney used a fundraiser hosted by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller to criticize the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. It banned unregulated, unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to national political parties and federal candidates.
“The bill ought to be repealed,” he said. “It’s been the wrong course for American campaigns.”
Romney said he favors unlimited donations as long as they are immediately disclosed on the Internet.
Romney was attending fundraisers in Salt Lake City and in Logan on Saturday.
Do NOT ping me to any of your crap ever again.
Neither do I.
I think cults are nifty-keen.
If you’re a Romney supporter, you need to learn to hold your posts to ‘not so nasty attacks on the other candidates’ ... making a nasty spectacle of yourself slimes over on Romney supporters and thus Romney, which is exactly what the DNC will be counting on if he comes up against the Rodham rodent in the general.
If you just sit back and listen for long enough you find out all sorts of thing about folks you thought you knew.
You are beyond common sense!
What happened to your boots?
It is amazing to watching your the willful nature telling other what they believe!
Where there should be evidence and there is not evidence this is evidence of falsity. Combine this with actual prophecies that were not fulfilled and you know to a certainty that this was a false prophet. If there were lost tribes of Jews in the Americas we would see architecture, ruins, physical descendents with the genetic markers of Jews, tribes with written languages, linguistic analysis of the indian's languages would match Hebrew or Aramaic, etc., etc.
As far as changing a Mormon's mind, I started this commenting on your belief that you can't show a prophet to be false, that it all depends on "presuppositions." I think I have demonstrated that you can show a prophet to be false (if his prophecies don't come true he is a false prophet) regardless of pressupositions. I don't even see how you can logically argue against the point that if a prophet makes a false prophecy he is a false prophet. As far as whether a person can maintain a faith contrary to reason, I don't know, I've never tried it. I imagine people can, but I think most simply avoid analysis of falsehoods in a cult and leave them be, turning to attack rather than examining the truth of their own faith. Others come to their senses and realize that it's baloney and they are part of an irrational, made up religion and leave.
The thing that has struck me is the amazing truth of the Bible compared to what we know of history from other sources, the proof that is there where it should be, and the coherence and consistency of the Bible. It's a different sort of faith that corresponds to reality . . .
Try and avoid Uranus..
It would be interesting to find where (date-wise) Smith concocted the Kolob mythos, if it was shortly after or months after he began working with his Hebrew teacher. He started making the changes and additions to the KJV when he had started his Hebrew lessons ... some lessons, that allowed him to add hundreds of words to Genesis chapter 50, for example. It would be an interesting study don’tchaknow.
Keep throwing pebbles, little man. Your efforts only diminish your credibility and embarrass your favorite candidate.
Maybe. It's my understanding the whole point of the Book of Mormon was that they had all died off a while ago. The absence of proof is not definitive proof of anything other than the absence of proof.
LOL! It’s not fair to quote the Bible!
It is interesting how the arguments used against Mormon beliefs apply as well against the beliefs of those making the arguments.
Joseph Smith is provably a liar. Toward the end of Smith's life people began to learn of his polygamy, which he kept hidden. William Law was Joseph Smith's second counselor in the church's First Presidency. He filed suit against Joseph Smith for living ``in an open state of adultery'' with 19-year-old Maria Lawrence.
In a sermon (!) Joseph Smith falsely denied he was a polygamist (it is now known to a certainty that he was a polygamist at this time):
What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.
I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience; and then I sent my brother Hyrum, whom they virtually kicked out of doors.
Here is a link to the actual sermon where he falsely denied polygamy in response to the accusations:
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/smithboastingandpolygamydenial.htm
Here is another gem from that sermon, where he sets himself above Christ:
Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.
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But of course, for people that think that faith doesn't have to correspond with reality, and all religions are the same, just because Joseph Smith showed himself to be a liar it shouldn't be considered evidence against the faith of Mormons. Reality has nothing to do with faith. Prophets don't have to be truthful.
If someone can prove to me Christ was a liar in the same way as this prophet that set himself above Christ, I'll listen.
Well said.
Not. Religion shouldn’t ask you to believe something impossible. Only miraculous, supernatural. But not impossible in the sense of being contrary to reason. For example, saying that someone is a true prophet who can be trusted absolutely, and who also makes a false prophecy, such as Joseph Smith did or Muhammed in the satanic verses did, is impossible. However, saying that God exists, or that Christ died for your sins, is supernatural, not impossible.
> Jehovah’s witnesses don’t run for office or vote.
And if they did...?
They are not the only ones!
2. I believe in the Bible.
My friend, the Bible says there is one, and only one, God. The belief that there are many Gods is just one of the unbiblical beliefs of Mormons.
1. DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
2. DEUTERONOMY 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD.
3. DEUTERONOMY 32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
4. 2 SAMUEL 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
5. 1 KINGS 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
7. 2 KINGS 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
8. 1 CHRONICLES 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
9. NEHEMIAH 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
10. PSALM 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
11. PSALM 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
12. ISAIAH 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.
13. ISAIAH 43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
14. ISAIAH 44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
15. ISAIAH 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.
16. ISAIAH 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
17. HOSEA 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.
18. JOEL 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
19. ZECHARIAH 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
20. MARK 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
21. JOHN 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
22. ROMANS 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
23. 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
24. GALATIANS 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
25. EPHESIANS 4:6 — One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
26. 1 TIMOTHY 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
27. 1 TIMOTHY 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
28. JAMES 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
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