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Romney: Attacks On Mormon Religion Troubling
CBS 4 MIAMI ^ | 23 JUNE 2007 | AP

Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist

(AP) SALT LAKE CITY -- Mitt Romney said Saturday that criticism of his Mormon religion by rival GOP presidential campaigns is happening too frequently.

“Clearly, any derogatory comments about anyone’s faith—those comments are troubling. The fact they keep on coming up is even more troubling,” Romney said during a fundraising trip in the home state of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The Mormon church is one of the fastest-growing religions and claims about 12.5 million members worldwide. But many evangelical Christians in crucial primary states such as Iowa and South Carolina consider the faith a cult.

Romney’s remarks follow an apology from GOP rival John McCain’s campaign for comments about the Mormon church allegedly made this year by a volunteer.

Also recently, Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, issued a similar apology for a campaign worker’s e-mail to Iowa Republican leaders that was an apparent attempt to draw unfavorable scrutiny of Romney’s religion. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani apologized after the New York Sun noted that a campaign aide had forwarded to a blogger a story about unofficial Mormon lore. Legend has it that a Mormon would save the Constitution, the story said. The campaign aide passed the story along with a note: “Thought you’d find this interesting.”

Romney said in a large presidential race there always will be some volunteers or workers who cannot be controlled. But he said the difference between derogatory comments that originated from the McCain campaign and others is that the Arizona senator has not personally apologized to him.

“In the case of Senator Brownback and Mayor Giuliani ... they called immediately. They each spoke with me personally. I don’t have any issue with that at all,” Romney said.

He said McCain “can do whatever he feels is the right thing. There’s no need for me to suggest how people respond to things that go on in the campaign.”

Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said the McCain campaign has already apologized.

“It’s a very sincere apology. There is absolutely no place for those type of comments in our campaign,” he said.

Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, said he had not spoken with McCain since the last presidential debate, on June 5.

Romney used a fundraiser hosted by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller to criticize the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. It banned unregulated, unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to national political parties and federal candidates.

“The bill ought to be repealed,” he said. “It’s been the wrong course for American campaigns.”

Romney said he favors unlimited donations as long as they are immediately disclosed on the Internet.

Romney was attending fundraisers in Salt Lake City and in Logan on Saturday.


TOPICS: Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: angeloflight; bookofmormon; cults; goldenplates; imnotacultist; imnotimnotimnot; josephsmith; kamora; kolob; lds; mormon; mormons; moroni; nephi; romney; wahhh
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To: greyfoxx39; Greg F; All
Check out what Greg found.

Cartoon banned by the Mormon church

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

1,641 posted on 07/01/2007 9:44:00 AM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: Enosh

Now, THAT’s entertainment!


1,642 posted on 07/01/2007 10:00:51 AM PDT by tantiboh (...if...this work be of men, it will come to nought; But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it...)
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To: tantiboh

“The fact remains, that the changes made to the Book of Mormon have generally been very minor, and have been made with an eye toward reflecting more closely the text of the -original- manuscript and improving readability.”

You do realized that it is impossible to actually see the
original??? Assuming there actually were golden plates,
which is a huge assumption, no one can compare.

best,
ampu


1,643 posted on 07/01/2007 10:36:27 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: MHGinTN

“There are punctuation problems in the Greek manuscripts of the Bible which are significant....The Greek had no punctuation commas.”

And this would mean that there are not punctuation problems
in Greek! :-)


1,644 posted on 07/01/2007 10:38:35 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Um, yep, that’s why the King James seems to have erroneous meanings occasionally when inserting commas where the Greek text relies upon the contextual meaning which Mormonism Apologists have trouble with ... like the works v faith issue in James 2: 14-26.


1,645 posted on 07/01/2007 1:04:06 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: Greg F

Pompous Donkey comes immediately to mind. Remaining comments self censored.


1,646 posted on 07/01/2007 1:07:13 PM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: greyfoxx39

With all due respect greyfoxx39, and I do not mean that in a demeaning way. If you bother to read my comments you will note that I said RELIGION. You IMHO have not named a religion, a group of shall we be nice and say sanctimonious mormom bashers yes, religion no.

I am on record here and now that I will not tolerate sanctimonious Mormon bashers any more than sanctimonious Catholic or any other Christian religion bashers. They bring nothing to this forum and one cannot have a conversation with them because their minds are indeed filled with stuff worthy of DU and a host of other hate filled leftist, communist, socialist, anti this and anti that sites.

If and when any of these folks want to have a reasonable no namecalling conversation based on scripture and only scripture I would be more than happy to oblige. I have had many in the distant past. Dig up dirt and it is pointless there is always dirt to be found. That doesn’t mean there is a speck of truth found in the negative press that all religions are victims of and that is the reason I choose to avoid bad mouthing anyones religion or their leaders.

Prophets, Baptism, Godhead, Jesus, Church, faith, Repentence, revelation, healing, tongues, so many topics of note, why anyone needs to resort to demeaning onesided ranting against something in reality they know very little about, is beyond me. I don’t go to an anti catholic site to learn of catholic doctrine, I go to friends who are catholic. Maybe my logic is faulty? You tell me.


1,647 posted on 07/01/2007 1:37:47 PM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: RaceBannon

Come on race quote me the scripture where it states Jesus is Satan’s brother. I don’t want to hear any mormons say this and mormons say that. If it isn’t doctrine in the scripture, it isn’t doctrine.

And yes Tuesday is ok by me. I’m at work.

And why accuse me of bad mouthing Mormons

An accusation may not be based on much. In this case I’d say you are not accused of bashing Mormons, you were part of the crowd I have it on surveillance camera. JK


1,648 posted on 07/01/2007 1:59:58 PM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: Enosh

Essentially true. The number of things true, according
to those I’ve spoken with on FR who are practicing mormons,
outweighs small dramatizations in the video.

I can see why it is banned by Mormonism, if that it is.

These are the things Mitt would prefer no one talks about,
since they are so far from Biblical Christianity.

Thanks for pointing this out.

best,
ampu


1,649 posted on 07/01/2007 2:06:22 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: wita; colorcountry; FastCoyote; MHGinTN; Pan_Yans Wife; svcw; Enosh; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; ...
If you bother to read my comments you will note that I said RELIGION. did you read my comments? You are saying, in effect, that if one is an Evangelical Christian, they are fair game for name-calling? I find the RELIGION designation very narrow and specious.

I am on record here and now that I will not tolerate sanctimonious Mormon bashers any more than sanctimonious Catholic or any other Christian religion bashers. They bring nothing to this forum and one cannot have a conversation with them because their minds are indeed filled with stuff worthy of DU and a host of other hate filled leftist, communist, socialist, anti this and anti that sites(Note: added to list.)

Well, now we know just what you will not tolerate. Glad your post doesn't show any indications of hate! Congratulations.

You have noticed, haven't you, that you don't run this forum?

1,650 posted on 07/01/2007 2:21:41 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: tantiboh

Crud

Now there is a full fledged Utahism circa 1960. I haven’t heard a crud, since leaving BYU. Somehow I feel you aren’t quite that generation. but you could tell us if you wanted to.


1,651 posted on 07/01/2007 2:23:18 PM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: Enosh

Pretty devestating.


1,652 posted on 07/01/2007 2:25:30 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: wita

The Truth About Mormonism:

 

"Is Mormonism Christian?" is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple.  No. Mormonism is not Christian.
     If you are a Mormon, please realize that I am not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief. If you are a non-Mormon looking into Mormonism, or if you are a Christian who is simply researching Mormonism, then this paper should be of help to you.
      The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it, like any other cult, denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically), Mormonism distorts two of them:  the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
     Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation.  It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8).  This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is god in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5).  See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.
      Because Mormonism errors in who Jesus is, salvation (the forgiveness of sins) does not occur and the Mormon is still in his sins.  Christians are saved from their sins and judgment by putting their trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins. But, faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed. The Mormon Jesus is not the one of the Bible, even though they call him Jesus, say he died for sins, and was born in Bethlehem.  The Mormon Jesus does not exist.  It is the nature of Jesus that is the issue. Jesus must be God in flesh, (second person of the Trinity) not "a" god in flesh who is the brother of the devil.    He must be uncreated, not created. He must be the creator (Col. 1:16-17).   This is who the true Jesus really is:  God, creator, uncreated, not the brother of the devil.
      Mormon theology teaches that god used to be a man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world, and that he brought one of his wives to this world with whom he produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first spirit child to be born was Jesus. Second was Satan, and then we all followed. The Jesus of Mormonism is definitely not the same Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus, is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't exist.
     

Devil, the The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)

Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)

A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." (Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)

Jesus The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)

Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15.)

Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)

"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115).

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).

"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).

"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, pg. 150). Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God; that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness. Consider James Talmage, a very important Mormon figure who said, "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil" (Articles, p. 432), and "Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through obedience" (Articles, p. 81). This contradicts the biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of our salvation but a result of them (Rom. 4:5, James 2:14-18).
      To further confuse the matter, Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold.  It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins, not simple universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone, the Bible does teach it. Which is correct? Obviously, it is the Bible.
      Mormonism, to justify its aberrant theology, has undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible.  The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly."  The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith allegedly corrected the Bible in what is called The Inspired Version, though it is not used by the LDS church.  Though they claim they trust the Bible, in reality they do not.  They use Mormon presuppositions to interpret it.  For example, where the Bible says there are no other gods in the universe (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8), they interpret it to mean "no other gods of this world."  They do not trust what it says and they often state that the Bible is not translated correctly.  This is what I have encountered numerous times when speaking to Mormons.
      Why is Mormonism a non Christian cult? Because it adds works to salvation. It denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator. It alters the biblical teaching of the atonement. It contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism. It undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.
      I do not deny that Mormons are good people, that they worship "a" god, that they share common words with Christians, that they help their people, and that they do many good things. However, Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (NKJV). Becoming a Christian does not mean belonging to a church, doing good things, or simply believing in God. Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, in the True Jesus -- not the brother of the devil.

Provided By:
CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS AND RESEARCH MINISTRY
© Matthew J. Slick, 2002

For More Information:

 

Can There Be Absolute Truth? Click Here To Find Out

The Truth About
:
NEW - Difference between a cult and a legitimate Christian church

Our Beliefs

How Can I Be Born Again?

Send Your Comments Or Questions Here

Click Here For More Resources of Life and Truth

 


1,653 posted on 07/01/2007 2:34:23 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
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To: wita

Who is the Jesus of the Mormon Nativity?

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emanuel.” –Isaiah 7:14

The Christmas story is a fulfillment of this prophecy. Christmas is the time when Christians everywhere celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. The Bible describes this event in Matthew. 1:18,20:

“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost….But while he thought on these thing, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Church) joins with other churches in celebrating the Christmas tradition, but who is the Jesus of the Mormon nativity? What do they teach about other churches and what do they believe about Christ?

Other Churches

Concerning other churches, Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was allegedly told by God to join no other church, “…for they were all wrong…all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt,” (Joseph Smith History, 1:19) The Book of Mormon itself makes a very clear distinction between the Mormon church and all other churches when it says, “Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.” - I Nephi 14:10. If the Mormon Church is the only true church on the face of the earth, then it follows that all other Churches must be false.

Rejecting the Traditional Christ

“In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, 6/20/98 p. 7)

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” (LDS Seventy Bernard P. Brockbank, The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)

Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie reinforces this teaching when he states, “…virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.” (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 269)

Who is the Jesus of Mormonism?

• The Mormon Jesus was conceived through “natural action” between God the Father and Mary.

“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He…was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Emphasis ours) (LDS President Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:115)

Brigham Young once described God as having, “… all the parts and passions of a perfect man, and his body is composed of flesh and bones…”(Emphasis ours) (LDS President Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 19:64). This view of God lead Young to say, “When the time came that…the Saviour, should come into the world…the Father came himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it.” (LDS President Brigham Young, Journal of Discourse 4:218)

Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost…Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man and that Man was God!” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:18)

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten of the Holy Ghost.” (LDS President Ezra Taft Benson, The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson pg.7)

“…I will say that I was naturally begotten…also my Saviour Jesus Christ…he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it.” (LDS President Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 8:211)

“Christ…was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived, and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says.” (LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine pg.742)

“The Father had a Son, a natural Son, his own literal Seed, the offspring of his body.” (LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, The Promised Messiah pg.355)

“He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is just that simple.” (LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, The Promised Messiah pg.468)

The above information is shocking and disturbing to Christians and Mormons alike. Many Mormons are not aware that their church leaders have made these statements. Some Mormons are even embarrassed to the point of denying that these are accurate quotes, but references have been included so that accuracy can be verified. Although Mormons claim to believe in the virgin birth, they redefine the term “virgin.” Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie states, “For our present purposes, suffice it to say, that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural, since the father of the child was an immortal being. “ (Emphasis ours) (LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p. 466) Regardless of whether Mary had physical relations with a mortal or immortal man, the fact remains that she could no longer be called a virgin. God the Father could not have physically impregnated Mary for the simple fact that God is not a physical man. Jesus said of the Father, “God is a Spirit…” (John 4:24) and that “…a spirit hath not flesh and bones…” (Luke 24:39)

• The Mormon Jesus’ Father was married to Mary

“…the virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father.” (LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer p. 158)

• The Jesus of Mormonism is brother to Lucifer

“Satan tempted…Christ…a momentous contest took place between two brothers, Jehovah and Lucifer, sons of Elohim…Christ was tempted by Lucifer.” (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 34)

“The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind.” (LDS Seventy Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages, p. 15)

• The Jesus of Mormonism is married with children

“…some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children.” (LDS Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 2:210)

“Jesus Christ was married…If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming an improper to say the best of it.” (LDS Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 4:259)

“Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee…Jesus Christ…was married…whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified…before the Savior died, he looked upon his own natural children, as we look upon ours.” (LDS President Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 2:82)

“We have now clearly shown that God, the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born…We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings’ daughters and many honorable Wives to be married.” (LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 172)

• The Mormon Jesus doesn’t save

“Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however, is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one’s salvation. Many go so far, for instance, as to pretend, at least, to believe that if we confess Christ with our lips and avow that we accept him as our personal Savior, we are thereby saved. His blood, without other act than mere belief, they say, makes us clean.” (LDS tract, What the Mormons Think of Christ pg.22) When speaking about having a personal relationship with Christ, McConkie stated, “…they devote themselves to gaining a special, personal relationship with Christ that is both improper and perilous… This is plain sectarian nonsense.” (BYU Devotional, March 2nd 1982 pgs. 19-20) He continued with, “…fanatical sectarians… assure us they have been saved by grace…I wonder if it is not part of Lucifer’s system to make people feel they are special friends with Jesus when in fact they are not following the normal and usual pattern of worship found in the true Church.” (Ibid. pg. 22)

“One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan…is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.” (LDS President Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness pg. 206)

“…for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (Emphasis ours) (II Nephi 25:23) Notice that God’s grace comes only after you have done everything you can do. If we can do all that God requires of us, then grace would not be needed. According to the Book of Mormon, you must stop sinning completely before God will forgive you. “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins…”(Alma 11: 37)

Thankfully, the Biblical Jesus is not the Jesus of Mormonism. While the Mormon Jesus waits for us to stop sinning, the Biblical Jesus acts on our behalf. “But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8) The fact of the matter is that our sins put us in debt to God. The Bible states, “…For the wages of sin is death…” (Romans 6:23) That is a debt that we cannot afford to pay. Because of His love for us, the Biblical Jesus died in our place. “For by one offering (Himself) He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified…Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.” (Hebrews 10:14,18) Jesus once rebuked religious leaders for rejecting His offer. “And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.” (John 5:40) The Bible is clear that if we come to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, He will freely forgive. Which Jesus will you come to, the Mormon Jesus, who waits for you to stop sinning before he can act, or the Biblical Jesus who offers to save you now?


1,654 posted on 07/01/2007 2:38:00 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
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To: wita

Ex. 1
Mormon Doctrine (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347)

That kind of goes against God’s own claim in Isaiah 44:6 which says, “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” (KJV).

For God to have himself been a man, wouldn’t another god had to have existed to create Him? It’s blasphemy.

Ex. 2
Jesus/Satan brotherhood from Mormon doctrine:
(Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 129; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547; 742). Mormon doctrine affirms that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers (Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

I’m sorry you’re offended. But my view is hardly narrow and is absolutely correct from the vantage of Christianity.


1,655 posted on 07/01/2007 2:41:38 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
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To: wita

Do Mormons Believe that Jesus Christ
Was Married and Practiced Polygamy ?

By Cooper Abrams


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not offically approve of the practice of polygamy today, however it was an important part of their past and it has a lot to do with their future.
Mormons claim to be Christians and to believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. They are greatly offended when told that they are not Christians. However, when examining their beliefs by comparing them with the Bible you get a real understanding as to why they are wrongly identifying themselves with the Jesus Christ of the Bible

It is not the LDS Church’s official doctrine that Jesus Christ was married and practiced polygamy, but it was certainly taught by church officials and believed by the Mormon people. The following quotes by the prophets and authorities of the LDS church clearly show that the Mormon god and Jesus Christ are not the God and Jesus Christ of the Bible. Here is more deniable evidence that Mormons are not Christians because they do not believe in the true God or Jesus Christ as revealed by the Bible.

Note what the LDS prophets preached and believed about Jesus Christ:

Jedediah M. Grant, Second Counselor to Brigham Young the Second Prophet of the LDS Church:

“Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and their belief? He says, the ‘grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was because He had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed Him.’ After Jesus went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the example of their master. . . The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, casing his crucifixion, was evidently based on polygamy,. . .a belief in the doctrine of plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus, and his followers. We might almost think they were ‘Mormons’ “ (Journal of Discourses, Vol 1. ppl 345-346)

Mormon Apostle Orson Hyde made these statements:

“It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; . . .no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the least of it.”
“I will venture to say that if Jesus Christ were now to pass thought the most pious countries in Christendom with a train of women, such as used to follow him, . . .he would be mobbed, tarred, and feathered, and rode, not on as ass, but on a rail.”

“At this doctrine the long-faced hypocrite and the sanctimonious bigot will probably cry, blasphemy! . . . Object not, therefore, too strongly against the marriage of Christ.” (All the above statements: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 259-260)

“When Mary of old came to the sepulcher. . .she saw two angels in white. and they said unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She said unto them, Because they have take away my Lord, OR HUSBAND, and I know not where they have laid him.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 210)

In 1853 the following appeared in the Mormon church paper, the Millennial Star:

“. . .we apprehend that even greater troubles than these may arise before mankind learn all the particulars of Christ’s incarnation-how and by whom he was begotten; the character of the relationships formed by the act; the number of wives and children he had. . .” (The Millennial Star, Vol 15, page 825)

Statement by Brigham Young, second prophet of the LDS church:

“The Scripture says that He, the Lord, came walking in the Temple, with “HIS TRAIN; I do not know who they were, unless his wives and children;” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13. page 309)

The Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt:

“...it will be seen that the GREAT MESSIAH who was the founder of the Christian religion, WAS A POLYGAMIST, . . .the MESSIAH chose. . .by marrying honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that HE approbated the plurality of wives under the Christian dispensation, as well as under the dispensation in which His polygamist ancestors lived. . . .We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives. . .” (The Seer, page 172)

These are a few of the quotes from the writing of the Mormon elders concerning the fact that they teach and believe the blasphemy that Jesus was married to Mary, Martha and the other Mary and that God was once a man and now lives in heaven practicing polygamy.
To obtain the celestial glory, which means to obtain godhood, a couple must have a temple marriage referred to as the sealing ceremony or endowments. This marriage is referred to as for all time and eternity and means an eternal marriage. Joseph Fielding Smith gave this answer to the question about Mormon couples who are not married in the temple, “Unless young people who marry outside the temple speedily repent, they cut them-selves off from exaltation in the celestial kingdom of God. If they should prove themselves worthy, notwithstanding that great error, to enter into the celestial kingdom, they go in that kingdom as servants. [see Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 4 vols. (Salt Lake: Deseret Books, 1957-66), p. 196., Gospel Library, [CD-ROM], Infobases, 1998.’]

This means that unless Jesus Christ was married he would not be allowed to go to the highest heaven which is the Celestial Heaven nor could he become a god. It is an absolute fact that the LDS Church’s official teaching is that a man must be married obtain the Celestial Heaven.

The unmistakable conclusion is that the LDS god was a mortal man who was married and his marriage qualified him for being exalted to godhood. The god of the Mormons is a man-god who once was a man like any other man, who by his good works was exalted to godhood. That is what the Mormons are working for....not salvation...but godhood. (See Genesis 3:5, Godhood is what Satan promised Eve if she disobeyed God and ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil)

The Jesus, the Mormons proclaim to love so dearly, is absolutely not the Jesus Christ of the Bible, but according to their teaching the sexual offspring of their god and one of his many wives in heaven. In fact Jesus, Satan and all men are the actual offspring of their god of flesh and bone.

Although this teaching is not official LDS doctrine, it is taught in their church by their prophets and authorities and believed by a most Mormons.


1,656 posted on 07/01/2007 2:42:53 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1655 | View Replies]

To: wita

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:MBOa1Z8sMsIJ:www.carm.org/warning/warning7.doc+Mormon+Jesus+Satan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=23&gl=us

WARNING

There are two cults going door-to-door: Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses. They claim to be Christian religions, but they are not.

Mormonism teaches:

- God used to be a man on another planet and Mormon members
may become gods of their own worlds.1

- There are many many gods.2

- The Trinity is three separate Gods.3

- Entrance into celestial heaven is by the consent of God and the
Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.4

- God has a body of flesh and bones.5

- God is married and produces spirit babies by having physical
relations with his goddess wife.6

- Jesus, Satan, and all of us are spirit brothers and sisters
procreated in a pre-existent spirit life.7

- God had relations with Mary to make Jesus’ body.8

- You must shed your own blood for the forgiveness of some sins.9

- Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins.10

Be careful. Rarely will they mention these ‘higher’ doctrines. Therefore, you really don’t know what they are teaching until long after you have joined. Be warned.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach:

- Their church organization is the prophet of God.11

- Jesus returned invisibly in 1914.12

- Blood transfusions are sinful.13

- The Holy Spirit is God’s impersonal active force.14

- Only their church members will be saved.15

- Jesus was an angel who became a man.16

- Jesus did not rise from the dead physically.17

- There is no Trinity.18

- Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins.19

Be careful. Jehovah’s Witnesses will want to begin a home ‘Bible study’ with you. What they really want is for you to join their religion.

These groups are non-Christian cults because they deny the true biblical doctrines of Jesus and salvation. First, Mormonism says Jesus is the brother of the Devil.7 J.W.’s teach that he is an angel who became a man.16 These teachings are not biblical.

Second, both these cults erroneously say that in order to be saved you must cooperate with God by doing good works. The Bible says that salvation is a free gift from God.21 The Bible condemns the addition of our works to the finished sacrifice of Jesus.22 Galatians 2:21 says that if salvation comes by works (”if righteousness comes through the Law”), then Jesus died needlessly. Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith alone, not by our works21 which are impure.29 Simply put, they each preach a false message of salvation.

The Bible teaches: there is only one God;23 God is spirit;24 Jesus’ sacrifice cleanses from all sin;25 Jesus is the only way to God;26 all who receive Jesus as Savior will be saved;27 and Jesus

WARNING

There are two cults going door-to-door: Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses. They claim to be Christian religions, but they are not.

Mormonism teaches:

- God used to be a man on another planet and Mormon members
may become gods of their own worlds.1

- There are many many gods.2

- The Trinity is three separate Gods.3

- Entrance into celestial heaven is by the consent of God and the
Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.4

- God has a body of flesh and bones.5

- God is married and produces spirit babies by having physical
relations with his goddess wife.6

- Jesus, Satan, and all of us are spirit brothers and sisters
procreated in a pre-existent spirit life.7

- God had relations with Mary to make Jesus’ body.8

- You must shed your own blood for the forgiveness of some sins.9

- Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins.10

Be careful. Rarely will they mention these ‘higher’ doctrines. Therefore, you really don’t know what they are teaching until long after you have joined. Be warned.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach:

- Their church organization is the prophet of God.11

- Jesus returned invisibly in 1914.12

- Blood transfusions are sinful.13

- The Holy Spirit is God’s impersonal active force.14

- Only their church members will be saved.15

- Jesus was an angel who became a man.16

- Jesus did not rise from the dead physically.17

- There is no Trinity.18

- Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins.19

Be careful. Jehovah’s Witnesses will want to begin a home ‘Bible study’ with you. What they really want is for you to join their religion.

These groups are non-Christian cults because they deny the true biblical doctrines of Jesus and salvation. First, Mormonism says Jesus is the brother of the Devil.7 J.W.’s teach that he is an angel who became a man.16 These teachings are not biblical.

Second, both these cults erroneously say that in order to be saved you must cooperate with God by doing good works. The Bible says that salvation is a free gift from God.21 The Bible condemns the addition of our works to the finished sacrifice of Jesus.22 Galatians 2:21 says that if salvation comes by works (”if righteousness comes through the Law”), then Jesus died needlessly. Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith alone, not by our works21 which are impure.29 Simply put, they each preach a false message of salvation.

The Bible teaches: there is only one God;23 God is spirit;24 Jesus’ sacrifice cleanses from all sin;25 Jesus is the only way to God;26 all who receive Jesus as Savior will be saved;27 and Jesus

WARNING

There are two cults going door-to-door: Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witnesses. They claim to be Christian religions, but they are not.

Mormonism teaches:

- God used to be a man on another planet and Mormon members
may become gods of their own worlds.1

- There are many many gods.2

- The Trinity is three separate Gods.3

- Entrance into celestial heaven is by the consent of God and the
Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.4

- God has a body of flesh and bones.5

- God is married and produces spirit babies by having physical
relations with his goddess wife.6

- Jesus, Satan, and all of us are spirit brothers and sisters
procreated in a pre-existent spirit life.7

- God had relations with Mary to make Jesus’ body.8

- You must shed your own blood for the forgiveness of some sins.9

- Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins.10

Be careful. Rarely will they mention these ‘higher’ doctrines. Therefore, you really don’t know what they are teaching until long after you have joined. Be warned.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach:

- Their church organization is the prophet of God.11

- Jesus returned invisibly in 1914.12

- Blood transfusions are sinful.13

- The Holy Spirit is God’s impersonal active force.14

- Only their church members will be saved.15

- Jesus was an angel who became a man.16

- Jesus did not rise from the dead physically.17

- There is no Trinity.18

- Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins.19

Be careful. Jehovah’s Witnesses will want to begin a home ‘Bible study’ with you. What they really want is for you to join their religion.

These groups are non-Christian cults because they deny the true biblical doctrines of Jesus and salvation. First, Mormonism says Jesus is the brother of the Devil.7 J.W.’s teach that he is an angel who became a man.16 These teachings are not biblical.

Second, both these cults erroneously say that in order to be saved you must cooperate with God by doing good works. The Bible says that salvation is a free gift from God.21 The Bible condemns the addition of our works to the finished sacrifice of Jesus.22 Galatians 2:21 says that if salvation comes by works (”if righteousness comes through the Law”), then Jesus died needlessly. Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith alone, not by our works21 which are impure.29 Simply put, they each preach a false message of salvation.

The Bible teaches: there is only one God;23 God is spirit;24 Jesus’ sacrifice cleanses from all sin;25 Jesus is the only way to God;26 all who receive Jesus as Savior will be saved;27 and Jesus

is God in flesh20 who rose from the dead in the same body He died in.28 These are some of the things the Christian church has always believed. These two cults distort them and thus lead many into eternal damnation. Why? Because...

Only the Jesus of the Bible saves, not the brother of Satan (Mormonism), not an angel made into a man (Jehovah’s Witnesses). Faith works only when you trust someone who is true.

The Mormons and J.W.’s are good people and we love them; but, they are misled.30 They do not know that the true gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins and that we receive His forgiveness by faith alone (faith in the true Jesus). Satan has blinded them.30 Jesus said that if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit.31 That is why this Christian ministry is exposing these cults, so you won’t be deceived.

If you want to be assured of the forgiveness of your sins and have peace with God, then you must realize that you have sinned against God,32 and are separated from Him.33 Then, ask Jesus into your life; ask Him to forgive you of your sins and save you. He will.27 He is Savior and Lord and He is as close as the call of your heart. Then read your Bible and go to church. At least now you know which two not to join. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.

The Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
www.carm.org — carmstuff@yahoo.com

208-466-1301

______________________________________________

DOCUMENTATION FROM MORMON WRITINGS

1)Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, p. 321. 2)Ibid., p. 163. 3)Ibid., p. 319. 4)Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, P.289. 5)Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. 6)McConkie, p. 516. 7)Ibid., pp. 192;589. 8)Ibid., pp.741-742; The Seer, p. 158. 9)Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Smith, Vol. I p. 135. 10)Articles of Faith, p. 79.

DOCUMENTATION FROM J. W. WRITINGS

11)The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, pp.197, 200. 12)You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, 1982, p. 147. 13)Reasoning from the Scriptures, pp 70-76. 14)Holy Spirit, 1976, p. 11. 15)Ibid., Feb. 15, 1979, p. 30. 16)Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 1152; New Heavens and New Earth, p. 30. 17)You Can Live Forever...pp. 143, 144, 172. 18)Let God be True, p. 101. 19)Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. I pp. 150,152.

DOCUMENTATION FROM THE BIBLE (GOD)

20)John 1:1,14, 8:58, 10:30; Col. 2:9. 21)Rom. 6:23;3:28;4:5. Eph. 2:8-9. 22)Gal. 3:1-2;5:1-4. 23)Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8. 24)John 4:24. 25)1 John 1:7,2:2. 26)John 14:6. 27)John 1:12; Rom. 10:9-10. 28)Luke 24:39; John 2:19-21. 29)Isaiah 64:6 30)2 Cor. 4:3-4. 31)Luke 6:39. 32)Rom. 3:23, 5:12. 33)Isaiah 59:2.

This tract is free to reprint and distribute. www.carm.org

is God in flesh20 who rose from the dead in the same body He died in.28 These are some of the things the Christian church has always believed. These two cults distort them and thus lead many into eternal damnation. Why? Because...

Only the Jesus of the Bible saves, not the brother of Satan (Mormonism), not an angel made into a man (Jehovah’s Witnesses). Faith works only when you trust someone who is true.

The Mormons and J.W.’s are good people and we love them; but, they are misled.30 They do not know that the true gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins and that we receive His forgiveness by faith alone (faith in the true Jesus). Satan has blinded them.30 Jesus said that if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit.31 That is why this Christian ministry is exposing these cults, so you won’t be deceived.

If you want to be assured of the forgiveness of your sins and have peace with God, then you must realize that you have sinned against God,32 and are separated from Him.33 Then, ask Jesus into your life; ask Him to forgive you of your sins and save you. He will.27 He is Savior and Lord and He is as close as the call of your heart. Then read your Bible and go to church. At least now you know which two not to join. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.

The Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
www.carm.org — carmstuff@yahoo.com

208-466-1301

______________________________________________

DOCUMENTATION FROM MORMON WRITINGS

1)Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, p. 321. 2)Ibid., p. 163. 3)Ibid., p. 319. 4)Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, P.289. 5)Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. 6)McConkie, p. 516. 7)Ibid., pp. 192;589. 8)Ibid., pp.741-742; The Seer, p. 158. 9)Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Smith, Vol. I p. 135. 10)Articles of Faith, p. 79.

DOCUMENTATION FROM J. W. WRITINGS

11)The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, pp.197, 200. 12)You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, 1982, p. 147. 13)Reasoning from the Scriptures, pp 70-76. 14)Holy Spirit, 1976, p. 11. 15)Ibid., Feb. 15, 1979, p. 30. 16)Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 1152; New Heavens and New Earth, p. 30. 17)You Can Live Forever...pp. 143, 144, 172. 18)Let God be True, p. 101. 19)Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. I pp. 150,152.

DOCUMENTATION FROM THE BIBLE (GOD)

20)John 1:1,14, 8:58, 10:30; Col. 2:9. 21)Rom. 6:23;3:28;4:5. Eph. 2:8-9. 22)Gal. 3:1-2;5:1-4. 23)Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8. 24)John 4:24. 25)1 John 1:7,2:2. 26)John 14:6. 27)John 1:12; Rom. 10:9-10. 28)Luke 24:39; John 2:19-21. 29)Isaiah 64:6 30)2 Cor. 4:3-4. 31)Luke 6:39. 32)Rom. 3:23, 5:12. 33)Isaiah 59:2.

This tract is free to reprint and distribute. www.carm.org

is God in flesh20 who rose from the dead in the same body He died in.28 These are some of the things the Christian church has always believed. These two cults distort them and thus lead many into eternal damnation. Why? Because...

Only the Jesus of the Bible saves, not the brother of Satan (Mormonism), not an angel made into a man (Jehovah’s Witnesses). Faith works only when you trust someone who is true.

The Mormons and J.W.’s are good people and we love them; but, they are misled.30 They do not know that the true gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins and that we receive His forgiveness by faith alone (faith in the true Jesus). Satan has blinded them.30 Jesus said that if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit.31 That is why this Christian ministry is exposing these cults, so you won’t be deceived.

If you want to be assured of the forgiveness of your sins and have peace with God, then you must realize that you have sinned against God,32 and are separated from Him.33 Then, ask Jesus into your life; ask Him to forgive you of your sins and save you. He will.27 He is Savior and Lord and He is as close as the call of your heart. Then read your Bible and go to church. At least now you know which two not to join. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.

The Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
www.carm.org — carmstuff@yahoo.com

208-466-1301

______________________________________________

DOCUMENTATION FROM MORMON WRITINGS

1)Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, p. 321. 2)Ibid., p. 163. 3)Ibid., p. 319. 4)Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, P.289. 5)Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. 6)McConkie, p. 516. 7)Ibid., pp. 192;589. 8)Ibid., pp.741-742; The Seer, p. 158. 9)Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Smith, Vol. I p. 135. 10)Articles of Faith, p. 79.

DOCUMENTATION FROM J. W. WRITINGS

11)The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, pp.197, 200. 12)You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, 1982, p. 147. 13)Reasoning from the Scriptures, pp 70-76. 14)Holy Spirit, 1976, p. 11. 15)Ibid., Feb. 15, 1979, p. 30. 16)Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 1152; New Heavens and New Earth, p. 30. 17)You Can Live Forever...pp. 143, 144, 172. 18)Let God be True, p. 101. 19)Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. I pp. 150,152.

DOCUMENTATION FROM THE BIBLE (GOD)

20)John 1:1,14, 8:58, 10:30; Col. 2:9. 21)Rom. 6:23;3:28;4:5. Eph. 2:8-9. 22)Gal. 3:1-2;5:1-4. 23)Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8. 24)John 4:24. 25)1 John 1:7,2:2. 26)John 14:6. 27)John 1:12; Rom. 10:9-10. 28)Luke 24:39; John 2:19-21. 29)Isaiah 64:6 30)2 Cor. 4:3-4. 31)Luke 6:39. 32)Rom. 3:23, 5:12. 33)Isaiah 59:2.

This tract is free to reprint and distribute. www.carm.org


1,657 posted on 07/01/2007 2:45:42 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1656 | View Replies]

To: wita
The Mormon god is not the One True Living God, The Mormon god is essentially an exalted man. Granted according to Mormon thinking he is exalted and has progressed far and above any other human beings that have or will ever exist. This Mormon god is in essence no different from humankind. Joseph Smith stated: “First, God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens is a man like unto one of yourselves, that is the great secret I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did. You have got to learn how to be gods yourselves ” The Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, p. 613-14. In the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3 Smith declares, “God himself was once himself as we are now and is an exalted man.” Talmage, a leading Mormon apologist, wrote these well known words: “As God once was, man now may become.” The Mormon god is eternally progressing, enters into sexual relationships and through his entourage of wives he has spawned the human race as well as the devil and Jesus Christ. The Mormon Jesus is therefore the brother of Satan. A popular Mormon hymn, O My Father has these telling words: “In the heav’ns are parents single?/No, the thought makes reason stare;/Truth is reason, truth eternal/Tells me I’ve a mother there.”

In The Seer, p.172, Apostle Orson Pratt claimed that both God the Father and Jesus were polygamists. He writes: “We have clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity”. He goes on to say, “We have also proved that both the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time.” Apostle Orson Hyde writes in Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 210: “Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha and others were his wives and that he begat children.”

1,658 posted on 07/01/2007 2:48:36 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1657 | View Replies]

To: wita

The Mormon Doctrine of Jesus
Written by Patrick Zukeran
Jesus a Procreated Being?
The Mormon Church claims to have restored the true teachings of Jesus. In this article, we will compare the Mormon doctrine of Jesus to the New Testament.
The New Testament teaches that Jesus, God the Son, is eternal and has no beginning. However, Mormonism teaches that Jesus is a procreated being, the literal offspring of God the Father and one of His heavenly wives. According to Mormon theology, God the Father, Elohim, dwells on a planet with His many spirit wives producing numerous spirit children who await to inhabit physical bodies so that they too may one day ascend to godhood as their parents did. Jesus is believed to be the firstborn spirit child of Elohim. The Doctrine and Covenants, one of the four sacred books of Mormonism states, “Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father.”{1} The Gospel Principles, which is the manual of the Mormon Church, states, “The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ.”{2} James Talmage, one of the early apostles of the church wrote, “[A]mong the spirit-children of Elohim, the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors.”{3}
According to the Mormon view, Jesus is not unique from the rest of mankind. He is simply the firstborn spirit child. The Doctrine and Covenants states, “The difference between Jesus and other offspring of Elohim is one of degree not of kind.”{4} That is why Mormons refer to Jesus as elder brother. James Talmage wrote, “Human beings generally were similarly existent in spirit state prior to their embodiment in the flesh. . . . There is no impropriety, therefore, in speaking of Jesus Christ as the Elder Brother of the rest of mankind.”{5}
Mormon doctrine deviates significantly from the Bible, which teaches that Jesus is eternal and not procreated. Although Mormons teach that Jesus is eternal, what they mean is that He existed as a spirit child prior to His incarnation. Being an offspring of Elohim means He was created at some point in time.
To support their view, Mormons appeal to John 3:16, which states Jesus is the “only begotten.” The Greek word used there is monogenes, which means “unique” or “one of a kind.” It does not mean procreated, but emphasizes uniqueness.
Mormons also appeal to Colossians 1:15, which calls Christ the “Firstborn over all creation.” The Greek word for firstborn is prototokos, meaning “first in rank, preeminent one.” It carries the idea of positional supremacy. Christ is the firstborn in the sense that He is preeminent over all creation. Renowned Greek scholar, the late F.F. Bruce, wrote on how the term was used during the time in which Paul wrote. “The word firstborn had long since ceased to be used exclusively in its literal sense, just as prime (from the Latin word primus—first) with us. The Prime Minister is not the first minister we have had; he is the most preeminent. . . . Similarly, firstborn came to denote (among the ancients) not priority in time but preeminence in rank.”{6} Psalm 89:27 in the Septuagint calls David the firstborn. We all know David is not the first-born son in his family, nor is he the first king of Israel. “Firstborn” here is a title of preeminence.
These Bible verses do not support the teaching that Jesus is a procreated being. The Bible further teaches Jesus is an eternal being. He had no beginning.
Colossians 1:17 states, “He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.” Christ as the eternal Son of God existed before all creation. Since Christ is “before all things,” He did not depend on anyone or anything for His creation or existence.
John 1:1 shows Jesus is eternal and has no beginning. John wrote, “In the beginning was the word.” Scripture indicates that the universe was not created in time, but that time itself was created along with the universe.{7} In other words, time was not already in existence when God created the world. The world was created with time rather than in time. Back before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1 lay a beginningless eternity.{8} The verb was is in the imperfect tense, indicating continued existence. So Jesus did not come into existence at some point in eternity past, He always existed. There has never been a point where He was not in existence.
In John 8:58 Jesus tells the religious leaders, “Before Abraham was born, I am.” Jesus is identifying Himself as the eternal God, quoting the words from Exodus 3:14. For this reason the Jews were seeking to stone Him for the crime of blasphemy. The words “I am” or “Yahweh” in the Hebrew language is the verb, to be. This name conveys the meaning of eternal self-existence. Yahweh, whom Jesus is identifying with, is eternal and beyond the realm of time. Abraham came to exist at a point in time, but Jesus never had a beginning. He is uncreated and eternal. Since the Bible teaches the eternal nature of Christ, He cannot be a procreated being as Mormon doctrine teaches.
Lucifer and Jesus
According to Mormon theology, God the Father lives on a planet with His spirit wives procreating spirit children who await physical bodies to inhabit. As we learned earlier, Jesus is the first son born to Elohim. God the Father had numerous other offspring, which included Lucifer. This makes him a spirit brother of Jesus and of all human beings. Mormon theologian LeGrand Richards writes, “Satan was just as much a man in the spirit world, as were those spirits who have been given bodies through birth in this world.”{9}
Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Lucifer were involved in planning mankind’s eternal destiny. In order to attain godhood like our heavenly parents, the spirit children needed to leave the presence of their heavenly Father, inhabit a physical body, and live a worthy life. Elohim knew that mankind would sin and thus require a savior to pay for sin and show us how to return to our heavenly father. At the heavenly council, Jesus and Lucifer proposed their plans. Lucifer offered to go to earth and be the savior but he wanted to force everyone to be saved and do everything himself. Jesus desired to give man the freedom of choice. The Father chose Jesus’ plan. Angered by the decision, Lucifer persuaded one third of the spirit children to rebel and a war in heaven took place between Satan’s forces and Jesus and His followers. Lucifer was defeated, cast out of heaven, and denied the right to inhabit mortal bodies.{10} Without the ability to attain physical bodies, exaltation to the Celestial kingdom is impossible. He became known as Satan and his followers became the demons who now exist on earth as spirits opposing God’s work.
Mormon theologian Bruce McConkie states, “The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the worlds was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the savior of mankind.”{11}
The Bible teaches that Jesus is not the spirit brother of Lucifer or of human beings. Lucifer is an angel and part of the created order. Ezekiel 28:13-19 reveals that Lucifer, in contrast to Jesus, is a created cherub angel. Colossians 1:16 tells us that Christ is the Creator of all things, including the angelic realm. The words “thrones”, “dominions”, “principalities” and “powers” were used by rabbinical Jews to describe different orders of angels. In Colossae, there was a problem of worshipping angels. Christ had been degraded to their level. Paul’s argument here is that Christ is superior to the angels for Christ created them. Lucifer falls into this category of a created angel, thus making him a created being. Hebrews 1:4 also reinforces the fact that Jesus, being God the Son, is superior in nature to the angels. Christ is Creator, while Lucifer is creature, two totally different classes and they cannot be spirit brothers as Mormonism teaches.
The Incarnation of Christ
The Mormon doctrine of Jesus deviates from biblical teaching regarding the preincarnate life of Christ. It also deviates in its teaching on the incarnation of Jesus. Mormonism teaches that Jesus’ incarnation was the result of sexual relations between the flesh and bone Heavenly Father and Mary. Jesus is the only earthly offspring so conceived. Mormon theologian Bruce McConkie states, “Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.”{12}
He also writes, “God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; He was born in the same personal, real and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about this paternity; He was begotten, conceived, and born in the normal and natural course of events, for He is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says.”{13}
James Talmage wrote, “Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh.”{14}
Mormon theology teaches that the Father was the main person involved in Mary’s conception, not the Holy Spirit. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, “Christ is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father.”{15} Mormon Historian Stephen Robinson states, “Mary was in some unspecified manner made pregnant by God the Father, through the power of the Holy Spirit.”{16} Dr. Robinson attempts to remain faithful to Mormon theology and the Bible, but his attempt falls short.
The Bible makes it clear: Jesus was conceived as the result of a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit, not a physical union with the Father. John 4:24 says that God is spirit. He is not a resurrected man.
Luke 1:35 states, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.” The Holy Spirit’s supernatural work in Mary’s body enabled Christ—eternal God—to take on human nature. Jesus thus had a dual nature. He was fully God and fully man. Mormons reject this teaching.
Stephen Robinson writes, the “unbiblical doctrine of the two natures in Christ was added to historic Christianity by the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D.”{17} This might be a consistent conclusion for Mormonism, but it is contrary to the Bible. Throughout the Gospels Jesus showed His humanity: He was hungry, He got tired, and His human body experienced death. However, He also revealed His divinity, demonstrating omnipotence (Colossians 1:17), omniscience (John 2:25), eternity (John 1:1), and omnipresence (Matthew 28:20).
There is a wide separation between the Mormon doctrine of the incarnation of Christ and what the Bible teaches.
The Atoning Work of Christ
Another key area in which Mormon theology deviates from biblical teaching is their view of the atoning work of Christ. To understand this, we must understand the Mormon view of the fall. According to Mormon theology, Adam was given two conflicting commands by God: one to become mortal and the other not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; out of which mortality, children, and death would result. Adam chose to eat of the fruit for it was the only way salvation could come to mankind.{18} As a result of the fall, Adam and Eve left their purely spiritual state and became physical beings. Mortality and child bearing would provide the way to exaltation and godhood. Man then inherited a dual nature, one physical and the other spiritual.{19}
Jesus’ death is believed to have atoned for only Adam’s sin, leaving us responsible for our sins.{20} Adam’s act brought mortality and death. The result of Jesus’ atonement is that all humankind will be resurrected. Mormon theologian Bruce McConkie states, “Unconditional salvation, that which comes by grace alone without obedience to gospel law, consists in the mere fact of being resurrected.”{21} The Second Article of Faith states, “We believe that men are responsible for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.”{22}
In Mormon theology, there is a distinction between general salvation—resurrection for all, and individual salvation which refers to exaltation. Mormonism teaches that that we have all attained universal resurrection as a result of Jesus’ death, but we must now earn our own place in heaven by doing all we can do.
Mormonism teaches there are three levels of heaven: telestial is the lowest level, the terrestrial, and celestial. The resurrection of Christ allows non-Mormons entrance to the telestial or terrestrial kingdom. All Mormons desire the celestial level where they attain exaltation to godhood. Attaining to this level depends on their life here on earth. The Mormon Church and Joseph Smith play the major roles in achieving exaltation. The Gospel Principles tell us that Jesus “became our savior and He did His part to help us return to our heavenly home. It is now up to each of us to do our part and become worthy of exaltation.”{23}
The Bible does not equate salvation with resurrection. Jesus’ death provides atonement for all of humanity (Isaiah 53:6), but salvation is contingent on one’s response to Christ’s atoning work. Salvation applies only to those who accept Christ’s work on the cross. It is not universal as in Mormonism.
All mankind will be resurrected, but it is at the resurrection that some will be condemned to hell and others to eternal life in God’s presence (Rev. 20:11-15). Those who reject Christ will not be saved (John 3:18). So resurrection is not equated with salvation.
Finally, individual salvation is by faith alone, not by works. (Ephesians 2:8-9) It is through faith in Jesus alone that one receives the full measure of the gift of salvation. The Bible does not teach three levels of glorification. There is only eternal life with Christ, or eternal separation from God.
Jesus the Polygamist?
As we have studied, the Mormon doctrine of Jesus deviates from the Jesus of the Bible in several key areas. Another unique teaching of Mormonism on the life of Christ is in regards to His marital state. Mormonism teaches that while on earth, Jesus was married to at least three women. Although Mormons today try to distance themselves from this teaching, it is clearly a part of their historical record. Orson Hyde, one of the original Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church and who was ordained by Joseph Smith, cites the gospel of John when he writes, “Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and He told them what to do. Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. I shall say here, that before the Savior died, He looked upon his own natural children as we look upon ours.”{24}
Mormonism teaches that Jesus was not only married, but He had a family. In a speech given by Hyde in the Salt Lake City Tabernacle, he exclaimed, “I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on marriage, at our last conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were His wives, and that He begat children. All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this—they worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfil the commands of his Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough ‘to fulfil all righteousness;’ not only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more righteous and important law ‘to multiply and replenish the earth.’ Startle not at this! For even the Father Himself honored that law by coming down to Mary, without a natural body, and begetting a Son; and if Jesus begat children, He only ‘did that which He had seen His Father do.’”{25}
This would be consistent with Mormon theology, since marriage is a requirement for exaltation to godhood.{26}
According to the New Testament, there is no evidence to indicate that Jesus was married or that He had children. It is even more inconceivable that He would enter into a polygamous relationship, for it was not God’s intended will for marriage. (Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, and 1 Timothy 3)
Our study reveals that the Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible. The Mormon view of Jesus teaches that He was not eternally God, that He was procreated as the first spirit child of the Father, He is a spirit brother of Lucifer, and was begotten of the Father through physical relations with Mary. For these reasons, we cannot consider the Mormon teachings on Christ to be consistent with the New Testament.
Notes

1. Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23.
2. Gospel Principles, 11.
3. James Talmage, Articles of Faith, 425.
4. Doctrine and Covenants 93:21
5. James Talmage, Articles of Faith, 426.
6. F.F. Bruce, Inerrancy, ed. Norman Geisler (Grand Rapids, MI.: Zondervan Publishing House, 1979) quoted in The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), 126.
7. Harold Kuhn, “Creation,” in Basic Christian Doctrines, ed. Carl F. Henry. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1983.), 61, quoted in The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), 100.
8. Louis Berkhof, Manual of Christian Doctrine (Grand Rapids, MI.: Eerdman’s Publishing Co. 1983), 996, quoted in The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), 100.
9. LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and Wonder (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Publishng Company), 277.
10. Gospel Principles, 16-17.
11. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine 193.
12. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 546-547.
13. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 742.
14. James Talmage, Articles of Faith, 466.
15. Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, (Salt Lake City, Bookcraft, 1975), 1:18-20.
16. Craig Blomberg and Stephen Robinson, How Wide the Divide?, 135.
17. Craig Blomberg and Stephen Robinson, How Wide the Divide?, 78.
18. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, 47.
19. “Church News” in Deseret News, July 31, 1965, 7.
20. LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and Wonder, 98
21. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 669.
22. Articles of Faith 2.
23. Gospel Principles, 19.
24. Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, 89.
25. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 210.
26. Doctrine and Covenants 132.
Bibliography
Book of Mormon. Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1986.
Doctrine and Covenants. Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1982.
Gospel Principles. Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979.
Pearl of Great Price. Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1982.
Ankerberg, John & John Weldon. Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Mormonism. Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1992.
Beckwith, Francis, Norman Geisler, Ron Rhodes, Phil Roberts, Jerald and Sandra Tanner. The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism. Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998.
Blomberg, Craig & Stephen Robinson. How Wide the Divide? Downer’s Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1997.
Martin, Walter. The Kingdom of the Cults. Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers, 1997.
McConkie, Bruce. Mormon Doctrine. Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1991.
Ostling, Richard. Mormon America. San Francisco: Harper and Collins Publishers, 1999.
Richards, LeGrand. A Marvelous Work and Wonder. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1976.
Talmage, James. The Articles of Faith. Salt Lake: Deseret Book Company, Revised Edition, 1984.
Young, Brigham. Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young. Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1997.
©2002 Probe Ministries.

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1,659 posted on 07/01/2007 2:50:48 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8...down to 3..GWB, we hardly knew ye...)
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To: greyfoxx39

Your comments speak for themselves. They have precious little to do with the intents of mine.


1,660 posted on 07/01/2007 2:51:24 PM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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