Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
(AP) SALT LAKE CITY -- Mitt Romney said Saturday that criticism of his Mormon religion by rival GOP presidential campaigns is happening too frequently.
“Clearly, any derogatory comments about anyone’s faith—those comments are troubling. The fact they keep on coming up is even more troubling,” Romney said during a fundraising trip in the home state of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Mormon church is one of the fastest-growing religions and claims about 12.5 million members worldwide. But many evangelical Christians in crucial primary states such as Iowa and South Carolina consider the faith a cult.
Romney’s remarks follow an apology from GOP rival John McCain’s campaign for comments about the Mormon church allegedly made this year by a volunteer.
Also recently, Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, issued a similar apology for a campaign worker’s e-mail to Iowa Republican leaders that was an apparent attempt to draw unfavorable scrutiny of Romney’s religion. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani apologized after the New York Sun noted that a campaign aide had forwarded to a blogger a story about unofficial Mormon lore. Legend has it that a Mormon would save the Constitution, the story said. The campaign aide passed the story along with a note: “Thought you’d find this interesting.”
Romney said in a large presidential race there always will be some volunteers or workers who cannot be controlled. But he said the difference between derogatory comments that originated from the McCain campaign and others is that the Arizona senator has not personally apologized to him.
“In the case of Senator Brownback and Mayor Giuliani ... they called immediately. They each spoke with me personally. I don’t have any issue with that at all,” Romney said.
He said McCain “can do whatever he feels is the right thing. There’s no need for me to suggest how people respond to things that go on in the campaign.”
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said the McCain campaign has already apologized.
“It’s a very sincere apology. There is absolutely no place for those type of comments in our campaign,” he said.
Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, said he had not spoken with McCain since the last presidential debate, on June 5.
Romney used a fundraiser hosted by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller to criticize the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. It banned unregulated, unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to national political parties and federal candidates.
“The bill ought to be repealed,” he said. “It’s been the wrong course for American campaigns.”
Romney said he favors unlimited donations as long as they are immediately disclosed on the Internet.
Romney was attending fundraisers in Salt Lake City and in Logan on Saturday.
You know Tant, it’s a shame, I guess there will always be those as the Pharisees, not really looking for the truth but rather ways to ensnare, trap, & catch. Thanks for posting this reasonable explanation. It didn’t work w/ the Lord nor w/ those who follow him. They mean well........I think. Have a great fast Sunday tomorrow & enjoy the fellowship of the saints. I know the change of pace will do me good, I’m sure you as well.
Well, you’re certainly making me dizzy.
tantiboh, I always enjoy your posts, thanks for keeping your cool with those who attack us and think nothing of it, nor of their blapshemy in our eyes, it is wonderful to see that you can look at things from both their and our perspectives, thanks for some great reads.
Enjoy your Sunday
Thank you to both of you, and likewise.
Crud... I forgot it was fast Sunday... -swallow-
My comment: Jesus Christ died for me; He is my Savior.
Didn't Christ die for the Budhist, Taoist, and heathen also according to Mormonism? Jesus died so that ALL mankind could have eternal life....at least that's what the Mormons taught me. Isn't that so?
Oh, I guess I misunderstood you. Yes, Jesus Christ died for everyone, even me.
“Jesus also told people that if you Dont believe Moses, you wouldn’t believe Him, either.”
But didn’t Jesus also say that Moses was wrong about a few things, like divorce, remarriage and adultery? I don’t know anything about what mormons believe, but there is room, given what Jesus said on this issue, to believe that a lot of the old rules and teachings didn’t really reflect God’s will.
Jesus boiled all the Commandments down into just two:
“And He said to him, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
I’ll buy that and I’m a Mormon.
Joseph Smith did not make the hoped-for translation. In fact, no evidence exists that he manifested any further interest in the plates after early examination of them, although some members of the Church hoped that they would prove to be significant. But the plates never did.You know, I had an argument with a fellow employee once where he was gong on and on about a theory of programming he had read about on the internet.
place marker
Brigham Young, one of your living prophets, set out blood atonement:
Now take a person in this congregation who has knowledge with regard to being saved in the kingdom of our God and our Father, and being exalted, one who knows and understands the principles of eternal life, and sees the beauty and excellency of the eternities before him compared with the vain and foolish things of the world, and suppose that he is overtaken in a gross fault, that he has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding of his blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin, and be saved and exalted with the Gods, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, “shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?”
All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers or sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the sheding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? That is what Jesus Christ meant. He never told a man or woman to love their enemies in their wickedness, never. He never intended any such thing; his language is left as it is for those to read who have the Spirit to discern between truth and error; it was so left for those who can discern the things of God. Jesus Christ never meant that we should love a wicked man in his wickedness.
. . .
I could refer you to plenty of instances where men, have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance (in the last resurrection there will be) if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the devil, until our elder brother Jesus Christ raises them up—conquers death, hell, and the grave. I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them. The wickedness and ignorance of the nations forbid this principle’s being in full force, but the time will come when the law of God will be in full force.
This is loving our neighbour as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind.
Journal of Discourses
Vol. 4, p. 215-221
Very funny. I wonder why it was never the noun that was in error, but it was always the verb tense that was the problem? If God can’t get the tense of a verb right, that’s sort of surprising. Now if a man, who had a problem with verb tenses wrote the book of Mormon without guidance from God, that would make things easier to understand with 1000’s of mistakes in singular and plural verbs.
Also funny that the Mormon church line is that they are “punctuation errors,” so much so that it was a kneejerk reaction on your part before you saw that I’d posted proof that this was not the case. Yet that line by the church is a lie, that the changes were only punctuation. What sort of Church lies like that?
“Conclusion, Joseph knew they were not real, but if you want to insist that he translated them, knock yourself out.”
If it were one or two cases where Joseph Smith “might” have been misinterpreted, I’d give you the benefit of the doubt. But by now, we have a vast library of questionable activities by Smith. The hieroglyphic translation that ended up being the Book of Abraham is completely debunked, BASED ON SMITH’S OWN REPRODUCTION. The Kirtland $3 Bank scam shreds Smith’s honesty. The polygamous/polyandrous adultery thing, especially with a 14 year old pimped by papa Heber Kimbal is thoroughly disgusting. The Nauvoo Expositor’s discription of Joseph and Hiram’s running a tin-pot dictatorship is true to form. The Salt Sermon (which must have been approved by Smith), gives ample background on who was really into extermination orders. The transparent KJ style of the Book of Mormon and multiple redactions shows it to be a work of fiction. Etc. Etc. Etc.
In short, you live in a sand castle.
Whew! I was going to say that in America, the
odds favor finding a hefty one these days...
Thanks for clearing it up!
placemark
Please read the citation that you have posted more carefully.
The false doctrine of the “blood atonement” states that a person can atone for his or her sins through the shedding of his or her blood.
This false doctrine, and its origins, are addressed in the link that I gave to you. I hope you read it; I suggest you read it again.
Brigham Young was trying to teach a principle; and he was using the example that Salvation is so critical that if a person, knowing this, could obtain it by shedding their own blood, they would do so.
Unfortunately, many believe, the Danites took this discourse out of context just as you have, and twisted it to fit their own agenda. This was an evil act, and they were rightfully denounced, in large part because of this belief, by the LDS Church.
In short, this is yet another instance where our detractors twist a passage to suit their own purposes.
~”...so much so that it was a kneejerk reaction on your part...”~
That was a kneejerk reaction on my part; and I have corrected the error. However, it does remain that, while punctuation did exist in the 1830 edition, a large part of the “thousands” of errors you claim were punctuation changes made after the 1830 edition.
Once again, I’m still looking into this; but I suspect that the claim of “1000’s of mistakes in singular and plural verbs” is overstating the case by quite a bit.
~”What sort of Church lies like that?”~
Since that was my recollection and error, and not a “lie” sourced from the Church, I wouldn’t know. Just like any culture, Mormons tell each other things that the Church doesn’t tell them. Sometimes the Church has to address such falseness very pointedly. Thank God we have prophets to keep us from embracing such doctrines of men.
The preliminary research I’ve done so far indicates that every change has been made for a reasonable purpose, just as has been the case for the Bible. Of course, it’s a rather exhaustive topic, so I doubt we’ll finish the conversation in this thread.
Early indicators are that this is yet another claim hyped by our detractors in an attempt to sow discord; nothing more.
Redactions... Now that’s funny.
~”In short, you live in a sand castle.”~
Check out my tagline. It’s from Acts. I’m not terribly concerned.
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