[GodGunsGuts]

ping

[Clintonfatigued]

You can bet the politically correct types will come down on him for this. He seems like one of the older liberals, in which tolerance includes tolerance for conservatives and people of faith. There doesn’t seem to be very many of those around now.

[pieceofthepuzzle]

I really don’t see how evolution and creation are mutually exclusive. Personally I believe evolution is a wonderful thing for God to have built in to creation; an ever renewing adaptive creation. It frees God up to do other things, like help us to learn how not to keep killing each other. The funny thing is that while some in the scientific community point fingers at the ‘fanatical’ creationists, they themselves have become somewhat unscientific and fanatical by purporting that creation is inconsistent with science or evolution. The most accomplished scientists in the world cannot explain why we exist. The most creative and knowledgeable physicists can’t explain why the laws of physics are what they are, and cannot say with certainty that there isn’t someplace we don’t know of at which physical laws are different than what we perceive in our own observable universe. At some level it’s about humility.

[IllumiNaughtyByNature]

Macro -evolutionary biology is still one of the few sciences that want us to believe that it is a fact even though it does not stand up to the scientific process.

[Hacksaw]

Turner asks, “What, then, is the harm in allowing teachers to deal with the subject as each sees fit?” ID can't be taught, he explains, because most scientists believe that "normal standards of tolerance and academic freedom should not apply in the case of ID." He says that the mere suggestion that ID could be taught brings out "all manner of evasions and prevarications that are quite out of character for otherwise balanced, intelligent and reasonable people."

And he is spot on. But here are the Predicted responses: He's not a "real" scientist (whatever that means); his school sucks so he doesn't count; he hasn't published enough papers; and a couple screens of cut-n-pastes.

[VOA]

bump

[ColdWater]

“”Unlike most of my colleagues, however, I don’t see ID as a threat to biology, public education or the ideals of the republic.”

Teaching ID as science requires one to completely separate oneself from the basic priciples of scientific research and methodology.

[narby]

I think that cloud I see out my window was intelligently designed. I mean, how can that moisture segregate itself with defined edges of such beauty unless it was designed? How could a cloud form “by accident”?

[LiteKeeper]

Very interesting...some sanity from the other side!

[betty boop]

RE: the Kitzmiller v. Dover Case:

Although there was general jubilation at the ruling, I think the joy will be short-lived, for we have affirmed the principle that a federal judge, not scientists or teachers, can dictate what is and what is not science, and what may or may not be taught in the classroom. Forgive me if I do not feel more free.

This is truly deplorable. As was the treatment of Dr. Sternberg at the Smithsonian, at the hands of thugs. And all evidently because certain people with a metaphysical commitment to materialism cannot brook the idea that there is anything purposeful in nature. And no one is to be allowed to disagree with them!

Thanks for this interesting post, GodGunsGuts. I hope Prof. Turner's wake-up call to his colleagues will be received.

[Doctor Don]

The close minded liberals on his campus will make his life miserable! Thay are not yet evolved to become normal human beings!

[Pietro]

"let us also hope that the chord is heard but the strummer is not harmed."

I wouldn't count on that. I hope he's already tenured.

[Aquinasfan]

"Unlike most of my colleagues, however, I don't see ID as a threat to biology, public education or the ideals of the republic. To the contrary, what worries me more is the way that many of my colleagues have responded to the challenge."

Bump

[tophat9000]

Pro-Darwin Biology Professor...Supports Teaching Intelligent Design

It sound like he a man that beliefs in Darwin and believe he can prove it in a fair fight he has the guts to battle in the arena of ideas....

[jwalsh07]

Although there was general jubilation at the ruling, I think the joy will be short-lived, for we have affirmed the principle that a federal judge, not scientists or teachers, can dictate what is and what is not science, and what may or may not be taught in the classroom. Forgive me if I do not feel more free.

I believe I noted the same sentiment at the time of the ruling. A very bad precedent. Horrible in fact.

[metmom]

According to a recent article by J. Scott Turner, a pro-Darwin biology professor at SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry in Syracuse, New York,

SUNY ESF is as liberal and green as they come. I'm surprised that an opinion as *conservative* as this would come from there.

[dotnetfellow]

Since God created it all anyway, this is much to do about nothing.

[drzz]

GREAT

[Christopher Lincoln]

Turner asks, “What, then, is the harm in allowing teachers to deal with the subject as each sees fit?”

Is it really necessary to point out that that is the exact opposite of what the school board did, or tried to do, in the Kitzmiller case? Yes, probably it is, so here goes. The original plan was that science teachers would be ordered to read a statement critical of evolution and supportive of ID - a statement which the teachers judged to be false and misleading (a judgment sustained by the evidence, if that matters). Later the board relented to the extent of having the school administrators read the statement. Discussion of the issue in class was explicitly forbidden.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Congratulations!

Your thread made it to a thousand posts.