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Can America Survive Evolutionary Humanism?
Mens News Daily ^ | June 19, 2007 | Linda Kimball

Posted on 06/20/2007 5:24:39 AM PDT by spirited irish

In addition to original Darwinism, today there are two other versions of evolutionary theory: punctuated equilibrium and neo-Darwinism, a revamped version of the original Darwinism. No matter the variant though, evolution serves as the creation myth for the theological and philosophical worldview of Evolutionary Humanism (Naturalism).

“Evolution is a religion,” declared evolutionary Humanist Michael Ruse. “This was true of evolution in the beginning and it is true still today…One of the most popular books of the era was ‘Religion Without Revelation,’ by Julian Huxley, grandson of Thomas Huxley…As always evolution was doing everything expected of religion and more.” (National Post, Canadian Edition, 5/13/2000)

“Humanism is a philosophical, religious, and moral point of view.” (Humanist Manifestos I & II, 1980, Introduction, Paul Kurtz)

The primary denominations of Evolutionary Humanism are Cultural Marxism/Communism, Secular Humanism, Postmodernism, and Spiritual Communism. The offshoots of these are among others, New Age/green environmentalism/Gaia, socialism, progressivism, liberalism, multiculturalism, and atheism. Individually and collectively, these are modernized versions of pre-Biblical naturalism (paganism).

All worldviews begin with a religious declaration. The Biblical worldview begins with, “In the beginning God…” Cosmic Humanism begins, “In the beginning Divine Matter.” Communism, Postmodernism, and Secular Humanism begin with, “In the beginning Matter.” Matter is all there is, and it not only thinks, but is Divine:

“…matter itself continually attains to higher perfection under its own power, thanks to indwelling dialectic…the dialectical materialists attribution of ‘dialectic’ to matter confers on it, not mental attributes only, but even divine ones.” (Dialectical Materialism, Gustav A. Wetter, 1977, p. 58)

In explicitly religious language, the following religionists offer all praise, honor, and glory to their Creator:

“We may regard the material and cosmic world as the supreme being, as the cause of all causes, as the creator of heaven and earth.” (Vladimir Lenin quoted in Communism versus Creation, Francis Nigel Lee, 1969, p. 28)

“The Cosmos is all that is or ever will be.” (Carl Sagan, Cosmos, 1980, p. 4)

Evolutionary Humanism has demonstrated itself to be an extremely dangerous worldview. In just the first eighty-seven years of the twentieth century, the evolutionist project of radically transforming the world and mankind through the power of evolutionism has led to the extermination of between 100-170 million ‘subhuman’ men, women, and children.

Deadly Problems

First, in order that materialist ethics be consistent with the idea that life evolved by chance and continues to evolve over time, ethics must be built on human social instincts that are in a continuous process of change over evolutionary time. This view demolishes both moral ethics and social taboos, thereby liberating man to do as he pleases. Over time this results in a lawless climate haunted by bullies, predators, despots, psychopaths, and other unsavory elements.

Perhaps Darwin could not envision the evil unleashed by his ideas. Nonetheless, he did have some inkling, for he wrote in his “Autobiography” that one who rejects God,

“…can have for his rule of life…those impulses and instincts which are strongest or…seem to him the best ones.” (Fatal Fruit, Tom DeRosa, p.7)

Humanist Max Hocutt realizes that materialist ethics are hugely problematical, but offers no solution. An absolute moral code cannot exist without God, however God does not exist, says Hocutt. Therefore,

“…if there were a morality written up in the sky somewhere but no God to enforce it, I see no reason why we should obey it. Human beings may, and do, make up their own rules.” (Understanding the Times, David Noebel, p. 138-139)

Jeffrey Dahmer, a psychopath who cannibalized his victims, acted on Darwin’s advice. In an interview he said,

“If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then…what is the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought…I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime.” (Dahmer in an interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, 11/29/1994)

With clearly religious overtones, atheist philosopher Bertrand Russell summarizes the amoral materialist ethic:

“Blind to good and evil, reckless of destruction, omnipotent matter rolls on its relentless way.” (Russell, “Why I am not a Christian and Other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects,” 1957, p. 115)

Next, materialist epistemology and metaphysics dispossesses man of soul, free will, conscience, mind, and reason, thereby dehumanizing (animalizing) man and totally destroying not only the worth, dignity, and meaning of human life, but the possibility of freedom. The essence of this annihilation is captured in the following quotes:

Man is “but fish made over…” declared biologist William Etkin (Pushing the Antithesis, Greg L. Bahnsen, p. 224). And his life is but a “partial, continuous, progressive, multiform and continually interactive, self-realization of the potentialities of atomic electron states,” explained J.D. Bernal (1901-1971), past Professor of Physics at the University of London (The Origin of Life, Bernal, 1967, xv). Furthermore, “The universe cares nothing for us,” trumpets William Provine, Cornell University Professor of Biology, “and we have no ultimate meaning in life.” (Scientists, Face It! Science and Religion are Incompatible,” The Scientist, Sept. 1988)

Man... “must be degraded from a spiritual being to an animalistic pattern. He must think of himself as an animal, capable of only animalistic reactions. He must no longer think of himself…as capable of ‘spiritual endurance,’ or nobility.” By animalizing man his “state of mind…can be ordered and enslaved.” (Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics, “Degradation and Shock,” Chapter viii)

Finally, Evolutionary Humanism posits the notion that despite the fact that man is “but fish made over…” there are in fact, some exceptions to this rule. For it happens---by chance of course---that some lucky ‘species’ and ‘races’ of the human animal are more highly evolved (superior) and therefore enlightened than the others, who are---unluckily for them---less evolved and as a consequence, subhuman. Paired to this view is the idea that if a species or race does not continue to evolve (progress up the evolutionary ladder), it will become extinct. Together, these ideas lead logically to the deadly conclusion that in order to preserve the fittest of the species---or the spiritually evolved, as is the case with Spiritual Communism--- it is morally incumbent upon the superior to replace (via the science of eugenics and population control) and/or liquidate the subhumans. In his book, “The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex,” (1871) Charles Darwin foresaw this eventuality:

“At some future period…the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world…the anthropomorphous apes…will no doubt be exterminated.” (Descent, 2nd ed., p. 183)

In practice, the materialist worldview is a hellish recipe for catastrophe, as was amply demonstrated by the 20th century’s two most blood-soaked political movements--- pagan Nazism and atheist Communism. Both rejected God, and both were animated by Darwinism

Nazi Germany

Hitler’s murderous philosophy was built on Darwinian evolution and preservation of favored species. In his book, “Evolution and Ethics, British evolutionist Sir Arthur Keith notes,

“The leader of Germany is an evolutionist not only in theory, but, as millions know to their cost, in the rigor of its practice.” (1947, p.230)

It was Darwinism that inspired Hitler to try to create---by way of eugenics--- a superior race, the Aryan Man. In pursuit of his ambition, Hitler eliminated what he considered were inferior human animals, among which were for example, Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, and Christians.

Evolutionism in Nazi Germany resulted in gas chambers, ovens, and the liquidation of eleven million “useless eaters” and other undesirables. Evolutionist Niles Eldridge, author of “Darwin: Discovering the Tree of Life,” reluctantly concurs. Darwin’s theory, he acknowledges,

“has given us the eugenics movement and some of its darker outgrowths, such as the genocidal practices of the Nazis.” (2005, p. 13)

The Soviet Union

Even though Karl Marx wrote his Communist Manifesto before Darwin published his “On the Species,” the roots of Communism are nonetheless found in Darwinism. Karl Marx wrote Fredrich Engels that Darwin’s ‘Origin’,

“is the book which contains the basis in natural science for our view.” (Marxian Biology and the Social Scene, Conway Zirkle, 1959)

Stephane Courtois, one of the authors of The Black Book of Communism, relates that,

“In Communism there exists a sociopolitical eugenics, a form of Social Darwinism.” (p. 752)

Vladimir Lenin exulted that,

“Darwin put an end to the belief that the animal and vegetable species bear no relation to one another (and) that they were created by God, and hence immutable.” (Fatal Fruit, Tom DeRosa, p. 9)

Lenin exercised godlike power over life and death. He saw himself as, “the master of the knowledge of the evolution of social species.” It was Lenin who “decided who should disappear by virtue of having been condemned to the dustbin of history.” From the moment Lenin made the “scientific” decision that the bourgeoisie represented a stage of humanity that evolution had surpassed, “its liquidation as a class and the liquidation of the individuals who actually or supposedly belonged to it could be justified.” (The Black Book of Communism, p. 752)

Alain Brossat draws the following conclusions about the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, and the ties that bind them:

“The ‘liquidation’ of the Muscovite executioners, a close relative of the ‘treatment’ carried out by Nazi assassins, is a linguistic microcosm of an irreparable mental and cultural catastrophe that was in full view on the Soviet Stage. The value of human life collapsed, and thinking in categories replaced ethical thought…In the discourse and practice of the Nazi exterminators, the animalization of Other…was closely linked to the ideology of race. It was conceived in the implacably hierarchical racial terms of “subhumans” and “supermen”…but in Moscow in 1937, what mattered…was the total animalization of the Other, so that a policy under which absolutely anything was possible could come into practice.” (ibid, p. 751)

21st Century America

Ronald Reagan loved God and America. America he said is, “the moral force that defeated communism and all those who would put the human soul into bondage.” (Republican National Convention, Houston TX, 8/17/1992)

Even though he was optimistic about America’s future he nevertheless cautioned that America must maintain her reliance on God and her commitment to righteousness and morality. He liked quoting Alexis de Tocqueville’s insightful analysis of the source of America’s greatness:

“Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret and genius of her power. America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.” (In the Words of Ronald Reagan, by Michael Reagan)

As America moves into the 21st century, we have yet to admit a shameful, dark secret. Evolutionism…the creation myth, that empowered Nazism and Communism, is being taught to America’s youth in our government-controlled schools. The animalization of Americans is well advanced and coupled to a corresponding slow collapse of human worth. Already we hear of human life spoken of in dehumanizing categories such as ‘vegetable,’ “non-persons,” and ‘uterine content.’

Ominously, Evolutionary Humanism has also outstripped Judeo-Christian precepts in our universities, judiciary, federal bureaucracy, corporations, medicine, law, psychology, sociology, entertainment, news media and halls of Congress. As Biocentrism it fuels the nonhuman animal rights project, the gay rights movement, radical feminism, and the increasingly powerful and influential green environmentalist program, which demands that America submit to the draconian mandates of the Kyoto Treaty.

America, the “moral force that defeated communism” is on the verge of completely rejecting God, the natural order, and moral absolutes and instead, embracing the godless religion of evolution, amorality, and the unnatural.

Evolutionary Humanism is the most dangerous delusion thus far in history. It begins with the ‘animalization of Other,’ in tandem with the elevation of the ‘superior,’ for whom this serves as a license to make up their own rules, abuse power, and force their will onto the citizens. This is accompanied by a downward spiraling process that pathologizes the natural order, moral ethics, virtue, and social taboos while simultaneously elevating narcissism, tyranny, cruelty, nihilism, confusion, perversion, sadism, theft, and lying to positions of politically correct “new morality,” which is then enforced through sensitivity training, speech codes, hate crime laws, and other intimidation tactics. If not stopped, as history warns us, this rapidly escalating downward process leads inevitably to totalitarianism, enslavement, and eventually mass murder.

In a portent of things to come, evolutionist B.F. Skinner said:

“A scientific analysis of behavior dispossesses autonomous man and turns the control he has been said to exert over to the environment. The individual…is henceforth to be controlled…in large part by other men.” (Understanding the Times, David Noebel, p. 232)

Copyright Linda Kimball 2007 www.patriotsandliberty.com/

Linda is the author of many published essays on culture, worldview, and politics. Her essays are published both nationally and internationally. She is a member of MoveOff.org


TOPICS: Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: communism; crevo; evolution; evolutionquotes; fsmdidit; moralabsolutes; socialism
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To: hosepipe
The earth was here already but was remodeled..

I've heard this argument before, and this recreation centers around the second line of Genesis 1:

And the earth was without form, and void The argument goes, as it always does, that this is a mistranslation. What it should read, is that ....the earth became without form and void, thus indicating non contradiction of a very old earth, that we ere otherwise unaware of, and which we are just discovering now.

Here's the problem

Philosophers have known for some time now that all things have two fundamental qualities: Its shape or form, and it's substance, and the two are distinguishable. Distinct.

The second line of Genesis tells us that the earth was without both of these. It had neither form nor substance. Now, even if one interprets Genesis, and thus the earth, as having a pre history of sorts....it is entirely meaningless from our point of view or inquiry since between the two instantiations, God would have obliterated any evidence of it since it became without form or substance.

That means that all the evidence science has collected, must necessarily be from this second instantiation of the earth....and you're right back to where you started, without accomplishing anything....

481 posted on 06/26/2007 2:28:32 PM PDT by csense
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To: csense
The second line of Genesis tells us that the earth was without both of these.

That seems to present another dilemma. If the Earth had neither form nor substance, what exactly was it they were calling "the earth"?

482 posted on 06/26/2007 3:09:05 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tpaine
tpaine, Judeo-Christian theology is neither a tribe, nation, church, nor cause. It is essentially the moral and ontological philosophy of the Framers, with a boost from classical Athens (e.g., Aristotle, Plato). And it is not "fanatical."

I'm afraid you're making my point for me, that it is the rare person nowadays who understands the American founding period, and the intellectual currents that ultimately shaped the design of the Constitution and our rule of equal justice under law. The latter is essentially a Christian concept.

But then, it's not for nothing that this subject area is no longer taught in the public schools. I've recently learned that many standard American history textbooks used in the public schools nowadays start with the Civil War....

Thanks for writing, tpaine!

483 posted on 06/26/2007 3:22:34 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: csense; hosepipe; Alamo-Girl
...until someone puts forth a decent argument that Genesis refers to eons, rather than what we understand as a twenty-hour day, then all you're doing is blowing smoke in the air patting each other on the back...

You've got to give dear 'pipe some slack, csense. Frequently he says the most outrageous things. I suspect he likes to shock people. :^)

As a matter of fact, I totally agree with you, that Genesis 1 refers to "eons," not to 24-hour days. You can't have 24-hour days before the creation of the sun (it is our earth's orbit around the sun that determines what a "day" is); and that doesn't happen until the fourth "day." In fact, I suspect that the events in Genesis 1 do not happen in time at all.

I'm sorry if I offended you, csense. Thank you for writing.

484 posted on 06/26/2007 3:31:36 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: betty boop
As a matter of fact, I totally agree with you, that Genesis 1 refers to "eons," not to 24-hour days. You can't have 24-hour days before the creation of the sun (it is our earth's orbit around the sun that determines what a "day" is); and that doesn't happen until the fourth "day." In fact, I suspect that the events in Genesis 1 do not happen in time at all.

I think "void, and without form" might also better translate to something closer to "lifeless and featureless", than "without form or substance", which seems redundant.

485 posted on 06/26/2007 3:48:23 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: betty boop
tpaine, Judeo-Christian theology is neither a tribe, nation, church, nor cause.

I didn't say it was.

It is essentially the moral and ontological philosophy of the Framers, with a boost from classical Athens (e.g., Aristotle, Plato). And it is not "fanatical."

I quoted Koestler because I think our author above is 'excessively devoted' to her anti-Evolutionary Humanism cause.

I'm afraid you're making my point for me, that it is the rare person nowadays who understands the American founding period, and the intellectual currents that ultimately shaped the design of the Constitution and our rule of equal justice under law. The latter is essentially a Christian concept.

Cite your support that our rule of equal justice under law is essentially a Christian concept. I contend that concept is so old it's lost in prehistory. Everyone from American Indians to pre-christian nordic societies have used that, as essentially, it derives from mans near universal 'golden rule'.

Thanks for writing, Betty!

486 posted on 06/26/2007 4:18:00 PM PDT by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: tpaine
I know just a little bit about Koestler. Koestler influenced Chambers with Darkness at Noon. They once met, and Koestler chastised him being a man of responsibility and burdening himself with children--he had two. Perhaps the answer was, that he had not that excess capacity of fanatical devotion so common among today's successful citizens who find no reward in being burdened with children. Incidentally, the NYT reports today today that Whittaker Chambers's farm is proposed for a national landmark.
487 posted on 06/26/2007 4:18:27 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: All

For what it’s worth, here’s my take on some of the issues you’ve been debating:

I believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God — who does not lie and whose will is perfect — and that all parts of His word are suitable for learning, for instruction, for exhortation, and for correction. Further, I believe the Bible is inerrant. Even though people may make an effort to distort it and repackage it in popular contemporary terms, God’s will cannot be frustrated by human effort and His will is that we should have His Word for our instruction and for our guidance and comfort.

I believe that some parts of the Bible were clearly given to us for instruction through parables, while others were given as song and poetry, and still other sections as a historic accounting or factual recording of events that transpired. While many parts of the bible are to be read and understood literally (e.g. “They melted their earrings and made a golden calf), they may still have extended application in contemporary terms (e.g.”Is there a golden calf in my life?”). This use of personal metaphor is not, however, the same thing as encountering a troublesome passage (e.g. “They abandoned the natural use of women”) and deciding to coyly avoid God’s intended meaning, call the verse “a metaphor” and then proceed to repackage His word in contemporary easily digestible terms.

On that same note, I believe that Adam and Eve were real people. There is no indication anywhere in the Old Testament that named figures should be understood as allegorical symbols simply because their stories are difficult for us to understand in contemporary terms. God doesn’t lie, and His message has come to us exactly as He intended it should.

And so I come back to evolution, and why I’ve taken such care in my posts and in my exchange with js1138 to caution against turning to science — and ESPECIALLY - to “evolution” to fill in what we believe are “gaps” in the Biblical account:

Scripture tells us that God exists outside of time and that His ways are not our ways. The God I know and love and worship is of such supernatural magnitude that He could easily have created the earth in a blink of His eye had it been His will to do so. He could easily have created an earth that looks billions of years old and yet is far younger - who knows what old and young look like in the hands of a supernatural Creator who also created the very laws by which we measure such things?

These things are not for us to spend our time picking apart. Jesus gave us the Great Commission, and once saved and adopted as heirs to God’s Kingdom we are — as Paul exhorts us — to “redeem the time” by “looking to heaven” and not to the things of the world.

Yet...

Many people...many, many people today just don’t trust God to be that great. We just can’t rest easy with the “Ours is not to wonder why, ours is but to do or die...” simplicity of trusting that God has told us all we need to know.

This includes many saved Christians. We love God, and we know He’s pretty awesome...but...we just aren’t sure — bombarded as we are by the culture around us, which HAS set up science as a false god — that God really is capable of Creation in the way that Genesis lays out.

We start wondering, and there is plenty in the world today to...bedevil us, if I might use a deliberately loaded terms...to encourage us to wonder and quietly doubt. Maybe Adam really wasn’t a real person...maybe a day was just the ancient Hebrews way of conveying an eon...maybe people evolved and Adam was just some downstream starting point for the allegory...maybe geologic time and the rise and fall of the dinosaurs does fit somewhere in there between “On the first day...” and “....then He rested”.

And, there’s the devil in it for those of us who are Christians. We should know better than that. We DO know better than that. When we start trying to add to His word to accommodate “evolution”, what we are really doing is doubting God’s ability to be who He is — that is, the Alpha and Omega...the one who exists outside of time...the one who can breathe life into dust and fill the oceans from the mists with just a thought.

We, the created, are simply trying to reach up and put the Creator in a man-made box of known dimensions so that we can better understand the world...but more than, so that we can validate our understanding of our place in it. Furthermore, we are doubting His perfection: Evolution is not about perfection; it is a notion that trades in chance, chaos, uncertainty, and has no interest in goals. When we suggest that perhaps God’s act of creation was carried out through evolution, we are suggesting that God operates through chance and chaos. Yet, while these are certainly under His authority, they are not His mode of operation and they are completely incompatible with His character, as revealed all throughout Scripture.

Again, from the perspective of one who has walked in the full embrace of secular humanism and come home again to trust in God and salvation in Jesus Christ...I pray that we will all consider carefully what we believe about evolution — and why we believe it — and make sure we understand what that says for what we believe about God.


488 posted on 06/26/2007 4:46:42 PM PDT by lifebygrace
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To: tacticalogic; Alamo-Girl; csense
..."form or substance", which seems redundant.

Form and substance are philosophical terms, and they are definitely not "redundant." Aristotle identifies the form of a thing with its physical manifestation; its substance is its "essence," which in Platonic philosophical and Christian terms indicates a participation in divine being.

The idea behind this is the idea that all existent things are only such to the extent that they are participants in divine being. This is a two-way street: From God to physical existents (man), and from physical existents (man) to God.

Isaac Newton actually had a very interesting idea about a sort of mediating field that he called sensorium Dei that might serve as a bridge between physical nature and its source in divine Being, enabling "the Lord of Life" to be "with His creatures."

And then again, we have the proposal of a universal zero-point field -- at least such has been suggested -- out of which photons just spontaneously erupt, do their thing, and are "annihilated." Now photons are very special little buggers. :^) They are the particulate nature of light, as in "Let there be Light."

To say more would probably be gratuitous, especially since I sense a discussion like this wouldn't be your favorite cup of tea. If I'm wrong about that, please do come back!

Meanwhile, thanks for letting me rant.

And thank you so much for writing, tacticalogic!

489 posted on 06/26/2007 5:00:17 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: betty boop
Form and substance are philosophical terms, and they are definitely not "redundant."

Maybe I wasn't clear. If find it redundant to say that a physical entity ("the earth") is without form or substance, when being without substance seems to necessarily imply an absence of form.

490 posted on 06/26/2007 5:06:40 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
That seems to present another dilemma. If the Earth had neither form nor substance, what exactly was it they were calling "the earth"?

The same earth that is mentioned in the first line of Genesis, which gives an immediate overview of who, what, and when....not in that order of course:

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Then it gives us the immediate status of the earth, among other things, relative to that point in creation:

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Then of course, comes the first line of creation that everyone is familiar with.

The fact that they mention the non existent status of the earth in this way, does not mean exactly the opposite, that it did indeed exist at that point. Such a thing would be absurd and a contradiction of terms.

491 posted on 06/26/2007 5:06:43 PM PDT by csense
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To: tpaine
Cite your support that our rule of equal justice under law is essentially a Christian concept.

Because Christianity declares that all men are "equal" under and before God, Who one day will judge us "equally," according to His justice. Every person has dignity; every person has unalienable rights. This is so because we are all desired sons (and daughters) of God, and He gives us what we need to be fully human....

492 posted on 06/26/2007 5:07:26 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: csense
The fact that they mention the non existent status of the earth in this way, does not mean exactly the opposite, that it did indeed exist at that point. Such a thing would be absurd and a contradiction of terms.

That is precisely why I question whether the description of "void and without form" might more accuratly translate as "lifeless and featureless".

493 posted on 06/26/2007 5:09:44 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: csense
The fact that they mention the non existent status of the earth in this way, does not mean exactly the opposite, that it did indeed exist at that point. Such a thing would be absurd and a contradiction of terms.

That is precisely why I question whether the description of "void and without form" might more accuratly translate as "lifeless and featureless".

494 posted on 06/26/2007 5:09:48 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: betty boop
As a matter of fact, I totally agree with you, that Genesis 1 refers to "eons," not to 24-hour days. You can't have 24-hour days before the creation of the sun (it is our earth's orbit around the sun that determines what a "day" is); and that doesn't happen until the fourth "day." In fact, I suspect that the events in Genesis 1 do not happen in time at all.

I'm not sure why you're agreeing to a position I don't hold. In principle, I'm not against such an interpretation....of eons....but as I've said, I've yet to hear an argument that has merit, when taken in context to Genesis as a whole.

Some of the arguments stand by themselves when taken out of context, but when you plug them in, they simply doesn't make sense.

That said, I'm not sure why you seem to think that God could not have established such a standard from the beginning, as I remarked on a few posts earlier.

495 posted on 06/26/2007 5:19:59 PM PDT by csense
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To: tacticalogic
...being without substance seems to necessarily imply an absence of form.

Some would say so, tacticalogic. On such a view, Being is substance; and physical form is the result.

496 posted on 06/26/2007 5:20:01 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: csense
That said, I'm not sure why you seem to think that God could not have established such a standard from the beginning, as I remarked on a few posts earlier.

Well then, please forgive me for not paying better attention.

497 posted on 06/26/2007 5:21:41 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: tpaine

tpaine..I think the question posed; - “Can America Survive Evolutionary Humanism?” is divisive,

Irish-—The issue is not about you and your feelings. You only feel it is divisive because you’ve allowed yourself to dwell on your feelings.

tpaine-— and that the real issue we should all address is how to get government to obey our Constitution.

Irish...The Declaration and Constitution are founded squarely upon the core presupposition: God created man-—man is His creature, made in His image. Streaming forth from this core presupposition is this major assumption: man’s Creator has endowed man with inalienable (not from man) rights....” Expecting that an elected leadership comprised of evolutionary humanists who reject God, and who contemptuously call Him a superstitious belief to nonetheless “respect” a system grounded upon God, is to be disattached-from-reality.

tpaine-—Saying that ‘ evolutionary humanists’ are causing gov’t socialism is a ludicrous nonproductive generalization

Irish...Evolutionary Humanism is but the modern version of pre-Biblical naturalism. Naturalism, in its many permutations, has always been socialistic (collectivistic), with an aristocractic ruling class and a rigid class and/or caste system. Evolutionary Humanism leads to socialism as naturally as day follows night.

Study worldview and you’ll discover these things.


498 posted on 06/26/2007 5:34:41 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: lifebygrace

Both hands clapping for a beautifully expressed post.


499 posted on 06/26/2007 5:36:44 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: tacticalogic
That is precisely why I question whether the description of "void and without form" might more accuratly translate as "lifeless and featureless"

I'm not sure I understand why you think this follows from my statement. I don't know how much simpler I can be in my explanations. God tells us right from the start that he is the one who created everything. That first line is not yet part of the chronology of creation, which Genesis one is.

The second line actually does begin the chronology, but only in the sense that he gives us the status of those things mentioned in the first line.

Then the actual chronology of creation begins.

I don't understand why that is so difficult to understand. Now, what exactly the "waters" were....that's an interesting question.

500 posted on 06/26/2007 5:40:20 PM PDT by csense
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