Islamism, A Disease Of The Muslim World

Middle East Transparent ^ | 6/10/07 | Samir Khalil Samir, sj

[sauropod]

You just wait when Tom Tancredo takes over, we’ll fix your wagon

Who would you propose instead?

[ScubieNuc]

I appreciate the link to Duncan Hunter. However, what is all that old WWII Nazi/Arab stuff?

I asked who else this War on Terror is against if you remove the Islamic element and you post...Nazi?!

Come on. I'd give you partial credit for saying North Korea, but we all know that they are just a remnant of the Cold War. Besides, you get rid of the Islamic customers of N. Korea, and they become pretty neutralized.

Also, how many N. Koreans have launched attacks on the US in the US? Bush probably just added them to his axis of evil list so as to not be labeled as starting a religious war.

Sincerely

[higgmeister]

Giving in even minimally to the slightest islamist request, means regressing beyond hope of recovery.

An Islamic Reverend is point blank saying that appeasement will kill us all.

How much more clearly must it be said!?

[Calpernia]

I answered your question. You choose to read. I’m not reading for you.

[ScubieNuc]

That’s fine, don’t read it to me.

Just a simple summary so I can be sure of what you are implying....America needs to begin attacks or actions against Nazis to complete this War on Terror?

Wow! The things people can learn on FR. Here I thought the Nazis were defeated in WWII, by over-running their country and killing their leader.

Well, it’s a good thing we still have bases in Germany, Bush can start launching attacks right away. Plus with this information out there now, I’m sure NATO, with all of our European allies (including Russia) will join us to rid the world of this Nazi scurge.

Thanks for being so enlightening. /sarc

Scubie

[Calpernia]

You are on the new side here (sign up date)?

You aren’t familiar with any of the threads about MoveOn.org, SDS, Ramsey Clark, CPUSA, the anti war movement?

You don’t know about the nazi youth that came in to the universities?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1752044/posts
Columbia Defends Its Nazi Links: “Everyone Was Doing It”

[hunter112]

But then again the author is a religious Infidel,

When I saw the letters "SJ" after his name, I looked him up, and he's a Catholic priest. I'd bet his name shows up on a fatwa soon.

[ScubieNuc]

You are on the new side here (sign up date)?

New side? I'm not sure what you are trying to insinuate, but I'll spell some of it for you.

I am not a supporter of Nazi's new or old. I abhor racism (hating someone specifically because of their race). I abhor evil and institutions that support it. Islam is one of those institutions.

There are many other institutions which I abhor (Moveon.org, Democratic Party, any group that supports abortion, etc.), but they are not what the War on Terror is about. While these groups aid the Islamic terrorists in their constant hate of America and our freedoms, they are NOT our primary enemy in the War on Terror.

While I abhor Islam the religion, I don't hate all Muslims or all Arabs. I can even believe that the violent part of Islam is only about 30% of all Muslims, but they are the ruling part which keeps the "peaceful" Muslims in line.

I have had face to face discussions with Muslims about their religion and have come to the conclusion that "peaceful" Muslims are either ignorant of their own religion (just like many Catholics are of their religion), or they are intentionally lying to deceive. Either way, Islam is a seed of evil. You destroy Islam and the "peaceful" Muslims would still live in peace, but the violent Muslims would be destroyed.

Just like in WWII, the Japaneses fanatics moral was only broke when they realized they worshiped a false god (emperor). So too, must the Islamic fanatics be stopped. When Mecca and Medina are turned to glass, the fanatics will realize two things...1)allah is false at worst weak at best, because he can't even protect his own 'holy' cities. 2)One of the pillars of Islam will be destroyed because no-one will be able to do the Hadj anymore. If you can't do the hadj, good luck in getting those virgins.

Now about my sign up date....I've been a lurker to FR since the Clinton/Lewinsky scandals. It was only a few years ago, that I got brave enough to try to engage with others on FR.

Now, if you think I'm some kind of mole or troll, then you have not read many of my posts. I could try to ping some of the Freepers I have talked with if you really want some references.

Finally, I have been open and frank with you (and sarcastic), however I don't feel that you have been as open with me. I sense you are either Muslim or have Muslim friends, and that's fine, but come out and say so.

Also, those references to Nazi's are a side issue at best. Nazi's have been around in America since the end of WWII. The closest they have come to terrorism is in their connection to OKC, but that info is flimsy at best. Calling Nazi's one of the enemies of the War on Terror would be as ridiculous as calling the Bloods or the Crips enemies of the United States in the War on Terror.

As a side note to the top paragraph, I believe Bush made a mistake by calling it a War on Terror. Terror has been, and will always exist. It is used by many different groups (neo-nazi's, bloods, crips, democrats, mafia, IRS, etc.) but we aren't at War against Terror. We are at War with Islamic terrorists. So a much better title would have been the War on Islamic Terrorism. Bush's broad title leads to ridiculous conclusions like the one you are trying to foist onto me.

Sincerely

[Calpernia]

When I pointed out the newness of your sign up date, I didn’t mean it as a derogatory. I was pointing out, you may not have seen the threads we have created that tied the anti war movements, people, actions together with Soros money and the progressive democrats.

I didn’t read your post 88. It is long and I’m on my way out the door. But, if you are interested in some older threads, here are a few good ones:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts
Vets refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/854062/posts
Exposing the Anti-War Movement, Part I: MoveOn.org (You Don’t Know Jack!)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1038294/posts
PROOF THAT DEMOCRATS = SOCIALISM / COMMUNISM

[Leftism is Mentally Deranged]

There is a difference between a religion and a death cult that has broken away from the religion.

[ScubieNuc]

I didn’t read your post 88. It is long and I’m on my way out the door.

Hmmm...I sense a dodge. I glance at your "in forumn" tab on your home page and what do I see? Five more posts. The last post was one HOUR after your supposed "way out the door."

Yeah, I'm not buying that you couldn't have taken 5 minutes (reading slow) to see what I said, and do a quick reply. I don't have any idea why you wish to be ellusive, but I can assure you, to all observers it looks like running away and hiding.

You don't have to respond. Your non-answer says alot more then you realize.

Sincerely

[Calpernia]

I can ping some to back up my claim (leaving); but I don’t care what you think.

I pulled info for you to reference. You either read it or don’t.

[ScubieNuc]

Your post..."While Islamic terror is an aspect of this WOT, it is not the whole war.

I answer..."In all seriousness, when you remove the Islamic aspect from this war, what else is left?"

Then your answer is a bunch of links about nazi's?????

So show me a speech by Bush where he talks about the Nazi part of the WOT.

Your run and avoid tactic, is not convincing me, and I'd be suprised if any lurker buys that strange response.

Sincerely

[Calpernia]

Your question was answered; but you didn’t read. I will not read for you.

[ScubieNuc]

"Your question was answered; but you didn’t read.

Actually you just don't want to answer. Here I'll help you. This is a quote from one of your links...

However, after over 700 years of peaceful coexistence, the true start of the Arab-Israeli conflict can be dated to 1920 and the rise of one man, Haj Amin Muhammad Al Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem.

You want to believe the Islam was all peaceful like until those nasty Nazi's showed up. Now, I suppose once you convince all those terrorists to read your FR links they will realize that all their koran memorization in Arabic was worthless, and they are were wrong to hate the great satan, United States......Riiiight.

Well, those ideas were even refuted on the links that you provided. The violent Muslims aren't violent because they are reading Mien Kamph. They are violent because they are reading the koran and following Mohammad.

Now, you can go try to sell your snake oil to someone else, but I aint buying any.

Sincerely

[Calpernia]

Has nothing to do with ‘I don’t want to answer’. I’m cooking dinner. I can’t sit here and help you read.

>>>You want to believe the Islam was all peaceful like until those nasty Nazi’s showed up.

That is not what I said.

[ScubieNuc]

That is not what I said.

No, your not saying anything really. You post some links as though that answers my question, and then say that my question is answered. I post what one of your posts says, and now you do a lawyerly dodge.

Take your time with dinner. I'm no longer interested in your artful dodging.

Sincerely

[SauronOfMordor]

I thought I would add some source materials to this discussion from my FR homepage:

Notes on Islam

The main sources of Islamic scripture is the Qu'ran (which ranks first) and the Sunnah

According to the website of the Muslim Students Association:

In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (saas), the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned.

From my copy of the Koran:
 

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day ... until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low
            Surah IX:29

O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scriptures before you
        Surah V:57

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush...
        Surah IX:5

And slay them wherever ye find them ... Such is the reward of disbelievers.
        Surah II:191
 

And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.
        Surah 33:36

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)
        Surah 9:123

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
        Surah 33:21 (note that this is important -- All that Mad Mo did is to be considered ideal conduct)

The following are quoted directly from the Hadith

Selections from the Hadith

Entrance into Heaven:

From Understanding Islam, page 2: "no one however devout and pious, can be sure of winning God's favor."

There is one, and exactly one, exception: Hadith Volume 4, Book 53, Number 352:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees him who strives in His Cause and whose motivation for going out is nothing but Jihad in His Cause and belief in His Word, that He will admit him into Paradise (if martyred) or bring him back to his dwelling place, whence he has come out, with what he gains of reward and booty."

Note the bolded part above in hadith 352. The one and only guaranteed way into Muslim paradise is to be killed while fighting in Jihad.

Also in the Qur'an 9:111:

Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Translation: Allah has made a contract with the Muslims: in exchange for the Muslim's lives and property, mandated to be used to fight Jihad, they will be rewarded in Paradise. This is central to Islam -- in my readings of the Qur'an this is the one and only circumstance where I've seen Allah binding himself to a contract

On the Islamic "Last Days":

The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The (Final) Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

On "collateral damage" (killing noncombatants)

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:

Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:

The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima [sanctuary; inviolate zone] is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."

[ translation: the women and children of infidels are acceptable "collateral damage". A Muslim has no need to avoid killing them while attacking infidels (as the Palestinian suicide bombers demonstrate repeatedly) ]

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

On Safiya, the 17 year old Jewish girl Mohammod raped("married") after killing her father, husband, and male relatives

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 143:

The Prophet said to Abu Talha, "Choose one of your boy servants to serve me in my expedition to Khaibar." So, Abu Talha took me letting me ride behind him while I was a boy nearing the age of puberty. I used to serve Allah's Apostle when he stopped to rest. I heard him saying repeatedly, "O Allah! I seek refuge with You from distress and sorrow, from helplessness and laziness, from miserliness and cowardice, from being heavily in debt and from being overcome by men." Then we reached Khaibar; and when Allah enabled him to conquer the Fort (of Khaibar), the beauty of Safiya bint Huyai bin Akhtab was described to him. Her husband had been killed while she was a bride. So Allah's Apostle selected her for himself and took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad-AsSahba,' where her menses were over and he took her for his wife. [...]

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 512:

The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaibar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet . The Prophet made her manumission as her 'Mahr'[dowry]

He took Safiya from the place where her husband, father, and other adult male relatives had been slain. As she was brought to him, she was led by the bodies of her relatives, neighbors and friends so that she was mute with shock when she arrived before Mohammod, who became impressed with her beauty. She was his war captive and slave. He made her his wife (in theory "freeing" her)

On Treatment of Those Who Try to Leave Islam

Treatment of a Jew who converted to Islam and left Islam to go back to Judaism Hadith Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

Mohammod on Prostitution:

Hadith Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139:

Narrated Abdullah:

We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."

On Punishment for Killing non-Muslims

Hadith Volume 1, Book 3, Number 111:

Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:

Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet apart from the Qur'an)?' 'Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).' Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya (compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).

On Mohammod's Having Sex With a Nine Year Old Girl

He marries his six year old niece Aisha and has sex with her when she turns nine Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65: Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18:

Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Dogs are to be killed

from the Hadith Book 010, Number 3811

Abdullah (b. Umar) (Allah be pleased with them) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered the killing of dogs and we would send (men) in Medina and its corners and we did not spare any dog that we did not kill, so much so that we killed the dog that accompanied the wet she-camel belonging to the people of the desert.

[They devote a whole chapter of the Hadith to dogs and their killing -- follow the link]

On Islamic Paradise

From the Qu'ran, Chapter 52, "The Mounting"

Lo! those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight,
Happy because of what their Lord hath given them, and (because) their Lord hath warded off from them the torment of hell-fire.
(And it is said unto them): Eat and drink in health (as a reward) for what ye used to do,
They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.
... Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded.
They will advance to each other, engaging in mutual enquiry.

[I'm guessing that all needs and desires will be satisfied, one way or another]

On Jihad and the Quranic concept of war

The US Army War College's journal had an interesting article on The Quranic Concept of War (the title of a book by Brigadier General S. K. Malik of the Pakistani Army). From reading the article, and from my own readings of Qur'an and Hadith, I've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of Westerners do not understand the full concept of Jihad

Jihad is not just armed fighting. It is not just car bombings or crashing planes into buildings. Jihad encompasses any and all acts which serve to advance Islam and the power of Muslims, or weaken the power of non-Muslims.

The end-goal of Jihad is to produce an environment where non-Muslims are afraid to speak out against Islam, and where Muslims do not experience any opposition to their spreading Islam by word and deed

In accordance with this, many activities can be seen as being part of Jihad:

• The fatwa against Salman Rushdie is part of Jihad, because it intimidates other writers from mocking Islam
• Filing "hate speech" charges against anyone who is critical of Islam (as happened in Australia to Rev Daniel Scott) is part of Jihad, since it intimidates others from speaking out
• Murdering artists who make movies critical of Islam (as happened to Theo van Gogh), and politicians critical of Islam (Pim Fortuyn ) is part of Jihad, because it makes others afraid to speak out
• A Muslim co-worker complaining about you to your boss because you made remarks critical of Islam, in an attempt to get you fired, is part of Jihad, because it creates a work environment where others are afraid to negatively discuss the topic
• Gaining a degree of financial control over media outlets (like the Saudi Prince who bought a large percentage of Fox News) is part of Jihad, since it allows Muslims to shape how they are portrayed in the media

[higgmeister]

Evening BTTT

Good Job Mate!

[SauronOfMordor]

I have had face to face discussions with Muslims about their religion and have come to the conclusion that "peaceful" Muslims are either ignorant of their own religion (just like many Catholics are of their religion), or they are intentionally lying to deceive. Either way, Islam is a seed of evil. You destroy Islam and the "peaceful" Muslims would still live in peace, but the violent Muslims would be destroyed.

That's the conclusion that I've come to as well. "Peaceful" Muslims are that way in spite of, not because of, Islam. There are good and bad people in every culture. The problem with Islamic culture is that a Muslim who opposes the use of violence to advance Islam is an apostate in the eyes of real Muslims