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FL lawyer says Giuliani, Romney, McCain wrong on Schiavo case
OneNewsNow ^ | 5/28/07 | Jim Brown

Posted on 05/28/2007 9:33:12 AM PDT by wagglebee

The Christian attorney who fought to keep Terry Schiavo alive says the three leading GOP presidential candidates don't understand the important disability issues involved in the widely publicized 2005 case.

Hear This Report

During a recent Republican presidential debate in California, the candidates were asked whether Congress was right to intervene in the Terry Schiavo case by attempting to prevent the state of Florida from removing the disabled woman's feeding tube. The answers varied.

Mitt Romney, former governor of Massachusetts, said he thought it "was a mistake" for Congress to get involved and the matter should have been left at the state level. Senator John McCain said Congress "probably acted too hastily." And former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani called the case a "family dispute."

David Gibbs III of the Christian Law Association says the United States gives greater due process to convicted murderers than to innocent disabled people. The former attorney for Schiavo's parents argues that Congress did the right thing when it intervened to provide her those rights.

"Many of the candidates are following the political wind, if you will, instead of showing leadership and saying, 'You know what? That was good public policy back then. We need to stand up for the disabled. We need to stand up for the senior citizens,'" Gibbs says. "We need to have that compassion for vulnerable people as opposed to taking the mindset that those people that just don't matter," he notes.

It is disingenuous, the Christian attorney contends, for candidates to claim they are pro-life but not be willing to grant due process rights to the disabled. "If you're pro-life, you have to be pro-life at every step," he says.

"Please understand: our founding fathers understood that you don't have any liberty, our Constitution doesn't matter, if you don't protect the innocent life of the citizens," Gibbs explains. "That's why they talked about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness -- your free speech, your freedom of religion, your right to own a gun or [receive] due process of law," he says. "If the government can kill you, you have no true liberty."

When Rudy Giuliani visited Florida he initially said he was in favor of assisting Terry Schiavo but later backpedaled from those comments, Gibbs points out. And in the recent GOP presidential debate, he says, only Kansas Senator Sam Brownback and Congressman Duncan Hunter of California got the issue right when they were asked about the Schiavo case.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008election; davidgibbs; duncanhunter; gibbs; giulianitruthfile; johnmccain; mittromney; moralabsolutes; prolife; terridailies; terrischiavo
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To: Alamo-Girl

Hello, Alamo-Girl! We’re always glad to see you :-)


1,341 posted on 07/09/2007 9:06:43 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: you come here expecting a turkey shoot, and then you find out that you are the turkey.)
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To: T'wit

Always glad to see you, too, dear T’wit!


1,342 posted on 07/09/2007 9:13:11 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: T'wit
Of course there is evidence. Consider even one item, from post #1311 “Jackie Rhoades, testified at the 1996 guardianship hearing that she knew Terri was being abused, that she frequently saw her with bruises on her arms and legs, and that Terri was afraid of Michael.

I have not read any of the testimony about this. As I repeatedly said, I'm interested in the medicine. However, I find the GAL report a good source of impartial information. If the testimony is as you say it is, he didn't find it persuasive:

Of Michael Schiavo, there is the incorrect perception that he has refused to relinquish his guardianship because of financial interests, and more recently, because of allegations that he actually abused Theresa and seeks to hide this. There is no evidence in the record to substantiate any of these perceptions or allegations.

1,343 posted on 07/09/2007 9:16:30 PM PDT by retMD
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To: bjs1779

I don’t know anything about this. There seems to be only the one article, and no previous articles or follow up anywhere that I can find. I do know that Jeb Bush appointed him chairman of the Florida Medical Examiners Commission. I also know that he is a neuropatholgist as well as a regular pathologist.


1,344 posted on 07/09/2007 9:18:54 PM PDT by retMD
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To: fatima
I talked with Terri’s brother and she only needed food to stay alive.Just a little tube because it was hard for her to swallow.She had nothing else wrong with her.I am jumping in here and I am sorry but she was fine otherwise.

What you are saying is inconsistent with several doctor's exams, starting with Humana hospital. It is also inconsistent with the autopsy report.

1,345 posted on 07/09/2007 9:21:08 PM PDT by retMD
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To: T'wit
The heck it is. Dr. Thogmartin alone had authority in this case. He was the boss. Dr. Nelson was there only at his invitation and his sufferance.

I fear you are spinning again. The allegation was made that Dr. Nelson needed to say specific things at Dr. Thogmartin's direction to keep his job. That is demonstrably false.

1,346 posted on 07/09/2007 9:23:12 PM PDT by retMD
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To: T'wit; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ..
1,301   1,293

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Pro-Life/Stem Cells/Conservative Issues Ping List. Sign up and Try Conservapedia  instead of Wickipedia.  Instead of Google, try Pro-Life Search

1,347 posted on 07/09/2007 9:23:32 PM PDT by Coleus (Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: T'wit
Why would decerebrate rigidity intensify pain near C4?

Did anyone besides Dr. Hammesfahr ever say that she had pain near C4?

1,348 posted on 07/09/2007 9:25:52 PM PDT by retMD
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To: T'wit
Wow! Whoever stopped Terri from breathing did a lot of damage to her.

And I thought you claimed to be interested in finding the truth, and not being convinced in advance? As always, please provide evidence.

1,349 posted on 07/09/2007 9:28:05 PM PDT by retMD
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To: retMD
Her Bro. and her Dad who I have talked to said she was fine but could not swallow.
1,350 posted on 07/09/2007 9:28:07 PM PDT by fatima (Baby alert,Baby Ava arrived 6-29-07 at 3 PM-she is 10 pounds:))
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To: All; retMD

The following is nothing, but emotional blackmail. If Terri’s parents showed videos that they had of Terri, they would not have been allowed to visit her.

Read this:

http://www.cnsnews.com/pdf/2003/bushnell.pdf

THIS shows that Michael Schiavo, and his friends, DID NOT want the truth to get outabout Terri’s cognitive abilities. Terri was severely brain damaged, but NOT brain dead.

Again, this is BLACKMAIL!


1,351 posted on 07/09/2007 9:32:21 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there. http://www.gohunter08.com/Home.aspx)
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To: retMD

This is from CNSNews.com:

Former caregivers file affidavits supporting allegations

Three medical professionals who had cared for Terri in the past filed affidavits accompanying the lawsuit, disputing Michael Schiavo’s claims that his wife was in a “Persistent Vegetative State,” which is the requirement under Florida law for a feeding tube to be removed. The medical experts also chronicled a long history of alleged denial of care and therapy by Schiavo.

Carolyn Johnson, a Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA), cared for Terri in a nursing home in the early 1990s. She described her shock at being ordered not to provide the same care for Terri as a patient in the same room with a similar brain injury was receiving.

“I learned, as part of my training, that there was a family dispute and that the husband, as guardian, wanted no rehabilitation for Terri,” Johnson explained. “Once, I wanted to put a cloth in Terri’s hand to keep her hand from closing in on itself, but I was not permitted to do this, as Michael Schiavo considered that to be a form of rehabilitation.”

Another CNA, Heidi Law, cared for Terri at a convalescent center in the mid and late 1990s. Law described similar orders she received not to encourage Mrs. Schiavo’s recovery.

“I know that Terri did not receive routine physical therapy or any other kind of therapy. I was personally aware of orders for rehabilitation that were not being carried out,” Law alleged in her affidavit. “Even though they were ordered, Michael [Schiavo] would stop them. Michael [Schiavo] ordered that Terri receive no rehabilitation or range of motion therapy.”

Law also alleged that her attempts to document Terri’s potential for improvement were thwarted.

“I made extensive notes and listed all of Terri’s behaviors, but there was never any apparent follow-up consistent with her responsiveness,” Law said. “There were trash cans at the nurses stations that we were supposed to empty each shift, and I often saw the notes in them.”

Law directly disputes Michael Schiavo’s claim that Terri is in a Persistent Vegetative State, as well. In her affidavit, she detailed how she routinely provided Terri with a wet washcloth filled with ice chips to keep her mouth moistened and, on at least three occasions, fed Terri flavored gelatin.

“I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag. [Another CAN] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy,” Law recalled. “On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jell-O, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely.”

Nurse recalls Schiavo asking, ‘When is that bitch gonna die?’

Carla Sauer Iyer was a Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN) at the same convalescent center in the mid 1990s, and also cared for Terri. She described Mr. Schiavo as being “focused on Terri’s death.

“Michael [Schiavo] would say, ‘When is she going to die? Has she died yet?’ and ‘When is that bitch going to die?’” Iyer charged. “Other statements which I recall him making include, ‘Can’t anything be done to accelerate her death, won’t she ever die?’ When she wouldn’t die, Michael [Schiavo] would be furious.”

Conversely, Iyer said that when she would have to call Schiavo to inform him of a downturn in Terri’s condition, Schiavo would be elated.

“Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die,” Iyer recalled. “He would blurt out, ‘I’m going to be rich,’ and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat and going to Europe, among other things.”

Iyer also described incidents of Terri Schiavo talking, moving voluntarily and responding to external stimuli, descriptions that Iyer said were removed from Mrs. Schiavo’s medical records. Both Law and Iyer reported Terri verbally communicating, also contradicting Michael Schiavo’s claim that his wife was in a Persistent Vegetative State.

“During the time I cared for Terri, she formed words. I have heard her say ‘mommy’ from time to time, and ‘momma,’” Law recalled. “She also said ‘help me’ a number of times.”

Iyer described Terri as “alert and oriented,” and said Michael Schiavo “systematically distorted” Terri’s medical condition.

“Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as ‘mommy’ and ‘help me,’” Iyer recalled. “’Help me’ was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times.”


1,352 posted on 07/09/2007 9:36:05 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there. http://www.gohunter08.com/Home.aspx)
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To: All

According to Cindy Shook, Michael’s girlfriend 1 1/2 years after Terri was hurt, Michael Schiavo said:

“How the hell should I know we never spoke about this, my God I was only 25 years old. How the hell should I know? We were young. We never spoke of this.”


1,353 posted on 07/09/2007 9:42:02 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there. http://www.gohunter08.com/Home.aspx)
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To: T'wit
“Jackie Rhoades, testified at the 1996 guardianship hearing that she knew Terri was being abused, that she frequently saw her with bruises on her arms and legs,

Funny thing about this. I can't find Jackie Rhoades testimony from a 1996 hearing. All I can find is her testimony from a 1/26/2000 hearing. And nowhere in that testimony does she mention signs of physical injury, such as bruises.

1,354 posted on 07/09/2007 9:42:37 PM PDT by retMD
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To: fatima
Her Bro. and her Dad who I have talked to said she was fine but could not swallow.

I am sorry for them, and sorry for their loss. People frequently want to believe that their loved ones are not as ill as they really are. I would never medically describe what I saw in the doctor's reports and the autopsy results as fine. As I always request, present the medical evidence.

1,355 posted on 07/09/2007 9:45:45 PM PDT by retMD
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To: retMD
>> There is no evidence in the record to substantiate any of these perceptions or allegations.

You just read some, sir, from Jackie Rhoades. Mr. Wolfson doesn't consider hostile testimony to be part of the record. There was a lot of it.

Btw, you are only interested in the medicine. Wolfson has nothing to do with that. He was a poll parrot for the Greer court.

1,356 posted on 07/09/2007 9:47:19 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: you come here expecting a turkey shoot, and then you find out that you are the turkey.)
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To: retMD

Heeehee,Your not a Doctor.God bless you,Fatima


1,357 posted on 07/09/2007 9:49:13 PM PDT by fatima (Baby alert,Baby Ava arrived 6-29-07 at 3 PM-she is 10 pounds:))
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To: retMD
>> And I thought you claimed to be interested in finding the truth, and not being convinced in advance?

Sir, the problem with being too open-minded is that your brains fall out. I've been looking at the evidence in this case for four years. I'm not making any judgments "in advance" of the evidence. I make judgments because of the evidence.

Now cut out the rhetorical attacks.

1,358 posted on 07/09/2007 10:00:17 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: you come here expecting a turkey shoot, and then you find out that you are the turkey.)
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To: retMD

1) What did you “see” in the autopsy report?

2) Did it prove Terri was PVS? Hint: NOPE.


1,359 posted on 07/09/2007 10:05:44 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there. http://www.gohunter08.com/Home.aspx)
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To: retMD
>> The allegation was made that Dr. Nelson needed to say specific things at Dr. Thogmartin's direction to keep his job.

What the heck are you talking about? I made no such allegation and know of no such allegation. Dr. Thogmartin was the boss and the only boss. Dr. Nelson was there at his invitation and sufferance. That's the plain truth, not spin.

1,360 posted on 07/09/2007 10:07:01 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: you come here expecting a turkey shoot, and then you find out that you are the turkey.)
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