What Does It Mean "The South Shall Rise Again":

The Wichita (KS) Eagle ^ | 23 May 2007 | Mark McCormick

[Rebeleye]

...he was stunned to see two large Confederate flags flying from trucks...emblazoned with the words "The South Shall Rise Again." I'm stunned, too, that people still think it is cool to fly this flag. Our society should bury these flags -- not flaunt them...because the Confederate flag symbolizes racial tyranny to so many... ...This flag doesn't belong on city streets, in videos or in the middle of civil discussion. It belongs in our past -- in museums and in history books -- along with the ideas it represents.

[carton253]

Again... you are arguing without the South being an active agent in the story. This is not just about what Lincoln knew and Lincoln did.

It is also about what the South told him they would do.

Put those two events together... and then you can make an historial evaluation.

You spend too much time defending Lincoln's choices and defining my positions. Stop the blaming and stop defending and stop propagandizing.

Just answer the question.

Did Lincoln know that if he sailed those ships into the harbor, the fighting would start?

And no you did not answer my question in your post...

[carton253]

No, I don’t. Sorry. Maybe there wasn’t a secret six... for history doesn’t keep secrets that long, does it?

[Colonel Kangaroo]

The irony is that in the 1850s the Republican party was the “states’ rights” party and the Democrats wanted Northern states’ rights trampled by national authority in the name of an unlimited right to slaves as property. The Northern reaction to Southern bullying was the source of the widespread support that produced the rapid early growth of the GOP.

[Non-Sequitur]

There would a small investment in the simple farm equipment of the day, but he's not going to buy many manufactured goods, especially from the North.

He was no doubt consuming a large percentage of those hundreds of millions of dollars in imports 4CJ says were bought by the South.

[Non-Sequitur]

It is also about what the South told him they would do.

When exactly did the confederate authorities make this clear to him? Lincoln was told by a lot of people that his actions would lead to war. Hurlburt gave his opinion, Lamon gave his, other people added their impressions as well. But if any person in power in the Davis government threatened it then I'm not aware of it. Lincoln was no doubt acting on the hope that cooler heads would prevail, not knowing that there were no cool heads down there. Might Lincoln also have been resigned to the fact that absent a complete surrender to all their demands, the South would start a war regardless of what he did? Maybe. We will never know for sure.

[carton253]

Why are you so afraid to the answer the question.

Did Lincoln know that if he sailed into the harbor, the fighting would begin... yes or no?

But please stop insulting Lincoln's intelligence.

[smug]

The Secret Six aren't very secret. They were Thomas Wentworth Higginson, George Luther Stearns, Gerrit Smith, Samuel Howe, Franklin Sanborn, and Theodore Parker. All wealthy abolitionists. Samuel Howe was married to Julia Ward Howe.

Thanks, Don't know how that escaped me all this time, or how they escaped the hangman's noose.

[carton253]

There you go... I knew history didn’t keep secrets.

[LexBaird]

Something is not constitutional or otherwise just because the USSC says it is.

Well, yeah. It is. That's how it works.

And if the USSC is thought wrong, then there is the check and balance of Article V. This was what was employed to overturn the effects of the Dred Scott decision by the Taney court. There are some on these threads who point to the 14th A. as the font of all our current woes, yet they never seem to look at why the Congress and States went to the extraordinary step of passing an amendment.

[Non-Sequitur]

Did Lincoln know that if he sailed into the harbor, the fighting would begin... yes or no?

I don't know. Did he?

[4CJ]

Nolu chan got canned a long time ago. You need to check out the WSR threads more often.

Who died and made you my mom? I posted his name for a specific purpose - for indexing and location later.

[carton253]

What are you so afraid of?

I don't know is a cop out.

Step up... answer the question.

[4CJ]

Article I, Section 10 and Article IV, Section 3 both make it clear that Congressional approval is required for changes in a state's status. Implicit in that is approval to leave as well. Or so the Supreme Court found.

'Clear', 'Implicit'. So in other words you nor the court could find any legislative power prohibiting secession, or anything laying out in detail any legal procedure regarding the same. I thought so.

[Non-Sequitur]

And if the USSC is thought wrong, then there is the check and balance of Article V.

Actually one need look no further than the 11th Amendment to see that process in action. In 1793 the Supreme Court ruled in Chisolm v. Georgia that Article III, Section 2 gave federal courts the authority to hear cases in against states filed by private citizens, and that states did not enjoy sovereign immunity from suits made by citizens of other states. Congress passed the 11th Amendment, it was ratified by the states, and the decision was effectively overturned.

[4CJ]

Oh you could have taken your real estate with you.

Tell me sport, just how does one take an entire state, of even a few acres of land physically with one?

[Non-Sequitur]

Step up... answer the question.

How? I'm not Lincoln, I can't tell you exactly what he was thinking. All I can say is that I'm not aware of any thing he said or wrote that shows he knew without a shadow of a doubt that sending supplies to Sumter would result in war. If you do then how about producing it?

[Non-Sequitur]

Who died and made you my mom? I posted his name for a specific purpose - for indexing and location later.

Well, it's a free country and you can do whatever you want I guess.

Now...go clean your room.

[Non-Sequitur]

Clear', 'Implicit'. So in other words you nor the court could find any legislative power prohibiting secession, or anything laying out in detail any legal procedure regarding the same. I thought so.

The court did. Chase was quite clear that entering the Union could be legally revoked only through consent of the states. In other words, the same method through which they joined in the first place. Which goes back to Article IV.

[Non-Sequitur]

Tell me sport, just how does one take an entire state, of even a few acres of land physically with one?

Well, chum, I suppose you'll just have to work that out on your own. If I learned one thing about you over the years it's that you're very imaginative.

[carton253]

Why play word games? Why hide behind the "I'm not Lincoln" canard. Please...

You know the answer. For some reason, you are just afraid to admit it.

He knew the consquences of resupplying Sumter, and he did it anyway...

I don't think it should be too much to ask for some honesty from you especially since you run roughshod over the Civil War threads demanding honesty from everyone else.