Republican Presidential Candidate Debate #2 - Columbia, SC 05/15/07 - Official Discussion Thread

May 15, 2007

[CounterCounterCulture]

Republican Presidential Candidate Debate #2 – Columbia, South Carolina 05/15/07 - Official Discussion Thread

Watch live coverage of the First-in-the-South Republican Party Presidential Candidate debate on FOX News Channel and FOXNews.com on Tuesday, May 15, at 9 p.m. EDT (6 p.m. PDT).

• Sam Brownback
• Jim Gilmore
• Rudy Giuliani
• Mike Huckabee
• Duncan Hunter
• John McCain
• Mitt Romney
• Ron Paul
• Tom Tancredo
• Tommy Thompson

The 90-minute debate will air from 9 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. ET (6 p.m. to 7:30 p.m.) and will be moderated by "Special Report" anchor Brit Hume. Questions will be posed by two panelists — "FOX News Sunday" host Chris Wallace and White House correspondent Wendell Goler.

[Kryptonite]

There are going to be many, many folks who will vote for Shrillary for no reason other than that she is Mrs. Bill.

In fact, the threat of her actually being elected because she is Mrs. Bill is why most sane Republicans fear her so much.

It is very sad. It is also very, very true.

[cva66snipe]

What’s so Ironic is Cali is being used as the first state to let Mexican rigs in. I drove a rig back in the mid 1980’s and Cali was the toughest state to enter with a truck second to none. They inspected everything.

[George W. Bush]

What an excellent analysis.

Giuliani got himself behind in the count in the first debate and part of this one, but Ron Paul floated one over the plate for him, and he knocked it, along with Paul's chances, out of the park. Rudy didn't help himself on abortion, but the exchange with Paul is what people are going to remember, so I'm reluctantly going to have to call him the winner here. Ron Paul is the biggest loser, unless you consider his chances at winning some third party votes. He's done as far as the Republican nomination is concerned, masses of internet poll-stuffers notwithstanding.

Giuliani grandstanded over Paul's war positions and was laying in wait. No doubt, Ron Paul has heard this same attack on him before. My guess, Giuliani did himself some good, probably not enough to offset his poor previous showing. Paul's numbers may actually rise sharply, eclipsing a number of other second-tier candidates but not exceeding Duncan Hunter's, at least not yet. RP also will reap some funds. You notice, I'm not saying these will necessarily be conservatives or even Republicans. I would expect he will gain with libertarians nationally and those liberals in solidly blue states who might cross over in the primary (a hazard to our primaries I've personally always opposed). Even if FNC wants to exclude him from future debates, it doesn't mean PMSNBC will cooperate.

OTOH, given that Giuliani wants to appeal to conservative Republican voters despite his leftwing social positions, then there is no real test of party purity for discriminating against Paul except for his antiwar position. Giuliani does oppose major planks of the party platform. Ron Paul doesn't. In each case, the candidate has significant opposition from a large portion of the party base and is relying on crossover appeal for their support. The two are not equal in this but their positions and history make them stand out from the bunch starkly.

Romney could not dominate the FNC team easily as he did with PMSNBC. The other candidates were a little better prepared also. I think Romney and McStain didn't damage each other much though the talking heads will make much of it. McStain turned in a solid but uninspiring performance, not as creepy as the first debate.

Hunter did well and has improved his image and came across personally on a few of those questions. Still, he reminds you of your dad's Republican and not so much of a candidate for the 21^st century. Whether Duncan did himself 1% worth of good in the polls remains to be seen. But like the other second-tier guys, he has to move visibly soon or he won't be able to.

Huckabee didn't impress me much. Somehow, the stench of Arkansas politics sticks to the man. Not grossly corrupt like Xlinton but cast out of that mold. No thanks.

Tancredo was more likable than the rest. His personality came out a bit more and he came across personally, probably a little better than Duncan did. I doubt he'll budge in the polls but if the border/RealID issue is still hot, he could pick up a percentage point or two in what is an issues candidacy.

Tommy Thompson continues to bore, despite his excellent resume. Same for Gilmore. Brownback seems destined to recreate the career trajectory of Bob Dole and lead the party to defeat as its nominee in 2024. Depressing even to think about it.

I don't think Rudy helps himself all that much but I could be wrong. FNC is totally in the tank for him as was made clear tonight. McStain might gain a few points in key states, Romney might lose a few (despite the resume and all that money).

The race isn't over and may not have even begun as this second and more conservative-friendly FNC debate highlights that The Guy just doesn't seem to be in the field.

Me, I'm waiting to see what Fred Thompson does. He's the wild card. But he shouldn't wait too long.

[patriciaruth]

I’m not deliriously happy about any of the candidates. They all have major drawbacks.

It is possible for someone to have character without military service. And military service isn’t a guarantee that you can do the job well.

I would prefer someone who had done some service. Did Richard Nixon ever serve? Wasn’t he raised Quaker?

[MinorityRepublican]

By the time the primaries come along we will all be bored out of our minds with these clowns.

I'm already bored. The current field of the Republicans are not exactly top-tier and plus it's way too early to get excited at this point.

[patriciamary]

I consider myself a far right winger,I am against abortion and gay rights.I believe all illegals should be deported,I am against quotas.I believe people should talk English in the USA.I support the Iraq war and whatever it takes to keep our country safe.I believe in Our Lord,Christian values,respect for our nation and it’s leaders.I believe the Pledge should be recited at school,the right to bear arms and defend oneself .I believe in the death sentence,and life terms for sex offenders,etc etc,but sadly this country partly because of the silence of this administration and the gutlessness of republicans this country leans more in the middle and more to the left today mostly due to all the negatives about IRAQ.Our officials let the Dem’s win the PR war without a fight.That’s why I can support a candidate I don’t agree with totally,but who I agree with more than any democrat.

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Pre-9/11, I’d vote for Paul in a heartbeat.

Post-9/11...not sure. I’d love him as Secretary of the Treasury though. :)

[SoCalPol]

a little more than El Cajon. Hunter's Dist.

[patriciamary]

Silly is thinking today anyone of those candidates,except Rudy, can beat Hillary.

[nowandlater]

Yes, it happened that way.

Anyway, here is my evaluation:

1. Rudy won the debate. His social views are killing me, but his comes out strong every else.
2. Huckabee. He redirects attacks very smoothly.
3. Romney loses a couple of steps, but he didn’t have help from Chris Matthews and he was on the defensive.
4. McCain. It is not that he did anything wrong, but whenever he explains McCain/Feingold and McCain/Kennedy legislation multiple times, it just hurts him in the primary. McCain is reaching for establishment votes and it is not working.
5. Hunter does suprisingly well.
6/7. Brownback/Gilmore. They seem to lack charisma.
8. Tancredo. He is golden on issues, but he rambles to much. He is not the best articulator.
9. Tommy Thompson.
10. Ron Paul. He sounds good in theory, but WOT is not about theory. Nutty professor material not executive material.

---

There is a political theory that the next president elected is usually a general response to what we didn’t get last time. In this case, President Bush’s reputation (rightly or wrongly) is someone who is inarticulate, a poor executive, and a big government spender. The nomination process will lean to candidates who are the anti-thesis of that. This favors Rudy (although his social views make it very tenous; a crowded field helps him a lot), Romney, Huckabee, and Hunter. The previous four as seen as very articulate. Three are good executives and two of them are good on fiscal issues. On the other hand, McCain is hurt on this theory. Fred is good communicator so in theory he could do well, but executive experience could be his achilles heel.

Bottom line, Rudy, Mitt, McCain (only because he is the establishment candidate), Huckabee, Hunter, Fred and Newt (if they get in) are the choices. Rudy wins under this scenario. Mitt maybe competitive in the early states but fizzles out on February 5th. McCain suffers a slow bleed. Huckabee or Hunter could emerge as the dark-horse. Fred’s lack of executive experience and Newt’s entry prevents him from overcoming Rudy.

[Ultra Sonic 007]

*points to tagline* There’s your Candidate C right there. ;)

[patriciaruth]

Romney’s ‘no torture, but enhanced’ stuff doesn’t impress me.

Well, to give him his due, he actually said that he wouldn't tell our enemies where he would draw the line.

That's a better answer in the real world, but I personally liked the "Get me Jack Bauer" line of Hunter's.

[SoCalPol]

It is Hunter not Tancredo who put up the bill to stop the recent plans with the Mexican Trucks crossing the border.

[patriciamary]

I like all three,but I fear the public will not,they don’t have the recognition.

[b9]

the "Get me Jack Bauer" line

Sorry ~ Hunter didn't say that. I believe it was Tancredo.

[Mariebl]

Much as I’m concerned about Hilary, she has some weak points. She’s starting with spectacular negative ratings, and, with any luck, strong enough primary competition to wound her a little bit more.

[patriciamary]

I agree,and the public at this time has such a bad taste for the republican party,we’re lucky to have a candidate who can win.

[omnivore]

Nixon was in the Navy, I think before WWII.

[cva66snipe]

It is Hunter not Tancredo who put up the bill to stop the recent plans with the Mexican Trucks crossing the border.

I think either one would stop it if POTUS.

[VegasBaby]

“Thanks. People have short memories of Fred Thompson. His second term ruined him.”

Really? Tell me more. I like Thompson, but I’m definitely interested in hearing honest viewpoints from his former constituents because I fear that the posters here on FR may be overstating his virtues.