Posted on 05/12/2007 10:57:57 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum
Those familiar with this blog know that I usually post one essay per week. There are several reasons for this: I like my essays to be of quality rather than necessarily quantity and a week gives me time to think of a topic, an approach, and write and refine the product; having done all that, I don’t want to dilute my own effort by having more than one active essay going for people to read and comment upon; lastly it leaves me time to actually have a life outside the blogosphere.
However, an event that I consider of huge significance has just taken place, one that not only bears directly on an issue of intense debate here on the Townhall site, but that has potential ramifications for the very future of the GOP and consequently our country as a whole. With that in mind, I’m breaking my own rule, though I’ll take this opportunity to urge you to also read my immediately previous essay on the MPAA if you haven’t already done so.
On Friday 11 May 2007, at a speech at the Houston Baptist College, Rudolph Giuliani flatly stated his support for abortion rights, gun control, and gay rights, asserting this should not bar him from being selected as the GOP candidate for President. You can read the full LA Daily News/New York Times article here.
The debate between Republicans and conservatives over Giuliani’s candidacy has been over the issue of his liberalism, with Republicans taking the position that it was merely expedient for his tenure as mayor of NYC, that he wasn’t really as liberal as conservatives were warning, that he was better than anyone the Democrats were offering; and conservatives saying he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, that he was philosophically and ideologically identical to the Democrats, and a threat to GOP values.
On Friday, Giuliani himself removed all doubt. In doing so, he has thrown down the gauntlet to the Republican Party: what value do you place on your principles?
This will shift the thrust of the debate away from a question of Giuliani’s position on core GOP values and toward the more important discussion that will determine the entire future of the GOP, which is: will the GOP completely abandon its principles and party planks to accommodate the candidacy of a self-professed liberal, and what will that mean for the tenability of the party as a viable political entity going into the future.
On this blog, since last year I have been warning of the dangers inherent in a Giuliani candidacy, as have some (but not very many) others in columns and comments. It will be interesting to see if this story even gets much traction and notice. If it doesn’t, that will be a clear signal that party regulars are simply hoping it will go away unnoticed so the boat doesn’t start rocking.
Further, after this bombshell pronouncement, what can we expect from a Giuliani presidency? Obviously, no support for Second Amendment rights to private gun ownership. Giuliani will act on his already acknowledged support for taxpayer funding of abortions. But most important, in the past he’s stated he would appoint constructionist judges. Even putting aside his own record of appointing very liberal municipal judges as mayor of NYC, how can anyone, in light of his stated position on these issues, believe for one New York Minute (how fitting!) that he’ll do anything of the kind? To do so would be to work against the very issues for which he just expressed his support.
Let’s also contemplate the effect on the GOP. To nominate Giuliani would be to disavow the traditional Republican positions and planks on the very issues that define the GOP, and especially conservatism. These are key issues distinguishing the GOP from Democrats. That distinction would be completely erased with a Giuliani nomination.
Finally, as a practical matter of winning elections, Giuliani and the GOP will be able to expect absolutely no support from conservatives. The party will have consigned itself to minority status, as it can’t win without the conservatives. It will also have sacrificed its soul on the altar of expediency.
I would urge all conservatives to make sure the word of this speech spreads as far and wide as possible. I would also urge all Republicans to rethink any support for Giuliani they’ve been contemplating. Finally, I would urge the GOP to throw this poseur out on his ear.
Its about time these thoughts gained some currency. I have been making these points on the Giuliani threads insistently and am mostly castigated for being a single-issue defeatist who is too blind to see that the future of the Republican Party is Giuliani.
To FreeRepublic's credit, this site once again recognized the truth well in advance of many others, and has been trumpeting just this assertion for weeks/months. Then there are those of lesser political acumen (who are no longer posting on this site) that were slow to understand reality - and possibly never will.
Early on I was one of those.
Was.
It doesn’t really “split” the GOP. It dissolves it.
Me too. Giuliani was an outstanding mayor. I was willing to wait and listen to what he had to say about abortion, gun control, fetal stem cells, gay marriage, and the other conservative issues.
Now he has spoken, and he is, in the words of Monty Python, Right out!
The death of millions of free people, including a majority of Americans, is clearly not sufficient for you to feel satisfied that your pure view of the conservative movement has been met. Where do you draw the line?
You, personally, are acting as a tool of the evil that I fight, though I believe that you don’t see that.
Your arguments are facile and imbecilic. Your reasoning is substandard. Your phraseology leaves much to be desired, as well. There, have I been clear enough?
I am disappointed in you.
Your position will ensure the triumph not only of the Dhimmicrats but of the Jihadis and the complete annihilation of our civilization, the destruction of human progress through 2,000 years of bitter struggle. You are serving the wrong master in this fight with your version of purity.
Very specifically, there is NO Dhimmicrat candidate who is better for our civilization and the defeat of the jihadis that Rudy Giuliani, regardless of my feelings for him on any other issue. If you argue that any Dhimmicrat is better than Giuliani then I know that you are my eternal enemy. Pure and simple.
Oh, and that makes it nice to meet a Mobyite plant, by the by, whether by intent or simply your inability to distinguish reality from the pap the MSM feeds you.
Open your eyes. Don’t parrot what you here from the DBM. They are not our friend. If you learned it from the “established media” then it’s a lie. Learn that and live it.
How do you fight an evil by supporting its strongest proponent?
Sorry knitting, I couldn't disagree more.
However, it has been made clear that discussion regarding Rudy, is unwelcome on FR. And since I'm not looking to antagonize the Powers that Be, I'll refrain.
However, suffice it to say, there is another point of view, with a rationale that is compelling, unwelcome but compelling.
quite simply that is a moronic argument. Rudy Giuliani is a greater supporter of abortion than which Dhimmicrat candidate? Please, name them. If not then please retire from the field as you are not competent to meet the challenge of the day.
But my question to you is more significant than that. How do you fight evil by joining real evil in attacking their greatest enemies? You are opposed to Rudy Giuliani? Fine, however, your arguments are exactly the same as Osama Bin Laden as to why he opposes Rudy. Why do you agree with Osama? Why do you support Hillary, Obama, Kucinich and all the rest of the Dhimmicrats over Rudy?
That's a very basic question.
I want Fred Thompson. I will settle for Rudy over any Dhimmicrat. You are throwing you lot in with the enemy because you can't get your way. If that be the case then you are my eternal enemy. In my view that also makes you the enemy of all of human kind.
Who do you serve? Increasingly I have to bring that question into these discussion.
Who do you serve? Only you can answer, but you are building up evidence that it isn't someone who others will not feel comfortable with.
I’ll ADMIT that I’m so far to the right - that Attila the Hun would have to race his pony for three days to reach my Left Flank -— but dammit, I can see no one close to my position on most matters, even using binoculars....
Rudy Giuliani is a greater supporter of abortion than which Dhimmicrat candidate?
***That’s the wrong question. We’re in the primary season, so the question should be: Rudy Giuliani is a greater supporter of abortion than which Republican candidate? And the answer is, ALL of them. Out of the 9 declared candidates, we can easily pick one which would defeat the hildebeast. Hildebeast is eminently beatable. For example, this article:
“Long Shot GOP Candidate Brownback Just Five Points Behind Clinton”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1798666/posts
Even with someone like Huckabee, once there were 2 or 3 republican candidates dropping out, he would gain that 5% easily.
Nope. I’m not arguing Giuliani over any Republican. That’s a straw man and, ultimately, a lie.
I’m ONLY talking about support for Giuliani if he is the nominee versus any Dhimmicrat. The 100%ers will argue that since they didn’t get their way they will walk away from someone like Giulliani “in protest.” And that insane notion is what gave us Speaker frigging Pelosi and Majority f’n leader Reid.
I will NEVER forgive them for that bit of arrogance.
EVER!!!!!!!
I’m ONLY talking about support for Giuliani if he is the nominee versus any Dhimmicrat.
***Oh, then I see we’re in agreement, since tootyfruityrudy ain’t never gonna be the nominee. Time for decaf for you.
Time for reality for you
I’m NOT a Rudy supporter
You, however, are doing the bidding of the Hillary/Obama/Satan supporters.
Stop trashing Republicans until you’ve defeated the Dhimmicrats
Don’t do their dirty work
Support your Republican candidate. I support you 100%, even if I don’t support that candidate.
Trash a potential Republican nominee to the benefit of the Dhimmicrats, no matter how much you may prefer another Republican, and you are my eternal enemy.
Is that clear enough for everyone?
I will support anyone in the Republican field over any Dhimmicrat. If anyone says otherwise they are the enemy of HUMANITY.
How’s that?
You don’t think you’re providing aid and comfort to the Giuliani campaign by vehemently declaring that you will vote for him in the general no matter what anti-Constitutional crusades he pursues?
Please.
Time for reality for you
***And, uh, what color is the sky on the planet you’re from?
I’m NOT a Rudy supporter
***I’ve heard that one before, with the same level of vehemence and invective; turned out not to be true.
You, however, are doing the bidding of the Hillary/Obama/Satan supporters.
***I would respectfully ask you to take back that Satan thing. As a believer in Jesus Christ, I find it extremely offensive. If you think I am doing the bidding of Hillary/Obama, then take that up with the owner of Free Republic who is actively Swift-boating Giuliani. Are you going to do that? Or are you going to waste your time with us 2nd tier freepers in your quest for a freepercide?
Here’s some threads for you to go to that discuss exactly the same stuff, and the thread owner is Jim Robinson.
Giuliani’s Direct Talk: “I’ve always believed in [abortion] and always will.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1832616/posts
Giuliani clarifies his stand on abortion, gays and guns: abortion one of his “core beliefs.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1832412/posts
The Giuliani Truth File - Rudy: In his own words and deeds.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=GiulianiTruthFile
Stop trashing Republicans until you’ve defeated the Dhimmicrats
***Why? Is this a GOP website? NO! Have I been signing my name in blood for 9 years to support conservatism only to find out that conservatism never really existed, that this community was owned by faux conservative CINOs all along?
Don’t do their dirty work
***So, pointing out that some candidate is a liberal — even when it turns out later that the candidate self-admits he’s a liberal — that’s doing the demorats’ dirty work? Since when? If someone came onto this forum to support a liberal democrat, they’d be removed in a heartbeat. But just because this liberal has an R in front of his name, it’s somehow dirty work to point out the same things?
Support your Republican candidate. I support you 100%, even if I don’t support that candidate.
***Oh, good.
Trash a potential Republican nominee to the benefit of the Dhimmicrats, no matter how much you may prefer another Republican, and you are my eternal enemy.
***Then I have some advice for you: Quit Free Republic. This ain’t the place for you because this ain’t a GOP website. It’s a conservative one, and that ridiculous lipstick-on-a-pig RINO candidate is going to get trashed, even by the owner of this site. That makes JimRob your eternal enemy. So I guess this means “Good Bye”.
Is that clear enough for everyone?
***Clear enough to qualify as an opus. Not a very good one, though.
I will support anyone in the Republican field over any Dhimmicrat. If anyone says otherwise they are the enemy of HUMANITY.
***Great exaggerations. They don’t amount to a hill of beans, though. All just a tale full of sound & fury, signifying nothing.
How’s that?
***See ya.
And anybody who believes the framers of the Constitution intended a "right to privacy" or federal jurisdiction arising from a non-enumerated power, is not fit to serve as president -- "penumbras" and "emanations" nothwithstanding.
You are obviously more interested in defeating Rudy than defeating the Dhimmicrats.
My agenda is 100% the opposite. I want to defeat the Dhimmicrats, whom I have decided are serving the interests of Satan.
You dismiss that and want to defeat Rudy, even if it means the servants of Satan win.
Therefore you are serving the interests of Satan
If that offends you then maybe you will take a moment to review your priorities.
Defeat Rudy in the primaries. Well and good and I will support that... in favor of a better conservative. Again, my candidate it Fred.
Continue to obsess on defeating Rudy, even if it means putting Hillary or someone of her ilk in power and It is clear whose interests you serve
I don’t support Rudy. You apparently do support Hillary in place of Rudy. You are on the wrong side of history.
You are on the wrong side of right and wrong, for that matter.
There is no other question, so far as I am concerned.
THEY must not win. ANY of the Republican candidates is preferably to them (Hagel is NOT a Republican candidate, before you bring that up).
Don’t serve them. That is all I ask.
All of your other arguments are BS, so long as you favor the success of a Dhimmicrat over a legitimate Republican.
End of discussion.
-30-
You are obviously more interested in defeating Rudy than defeating the Dhimmicrats.
***Straw argument. I’m interested in promoting conservatism. You are obviously a lunatic.
My agenda is 100% the opposite. I want to defeat the Dhimmicrats, whom I have decided are serving the interests of Satan.
***Wow. Didn’t take my advice about that there decaf, eh?
You dismiss that and want to defeat Rudy, even if it means the servants of Satan win.
***If you nominate a liberal to run against a liberal, you end up with a liberal.
Therefore you are serving the interests of Satan
***I see you aren’t withdrawing that contention in the name of decency. That would mean you’re just itchin’ for a fight. If you wanna fight so bad, just send the post to JimRob? Or are you simply a coward?
If that offends you then maybe you will take a moment to review your priorities.
***Ok, I have taken that moment and reviewed my priorities. They are in proper alignment. If Hillary had an R in front of her name I’d be against her. Would you? And if you feel this strongly about demorats vs. republicans, why not vent on a GOP website rather than one where the owner has specifically singled out that one candidate whom you happen to be defending by calling your enemies followers of Satan?
Defeat Rudy in the primaries. Well and good and I will support that...
***You aren’t doing very well at it. Does that mean you’re following Satan?
in favor of a better conservative. Again, my candidate it Fred.
***Like I said, I’ve heard it before. Do yourself a favor and go onto a Fred Thread and help him win. I think you’re just shilling, but that’s just me.
Continue to obsess on defeating Rudy, even if it means putting Hillary or someone of her ilk in power and It is clear whose interests you serve
***It’s clear to me that I support conservatism. Just because someone puts an R in front of their name as a candidate doesn’t mean they earn my support. As a matter of fact, a candidate like rudy is simply trying to split the GOP that you love so much. Where is the indignation from you regarding that? I won’t hold my breath waiting for it.
I don’t support Rudy. You apparently do support Hillary in place of Rudy. You are on the wrong side of history.
***You got a crystal ball now, eh? Calling what might happen in the future, history. OK, again I ask, what color is the sky where you come from?
You are on the wrong side of right and wrong, for that matter.
***You’ll need to forgive me that I don’t take your word for it. You are in serious need of a cephalorectomy.
There is no other question, so far as I am concerned.
***Then you really need to go to some other website. You are effectively calling the owner of this website a tool of Satan. You won’t be lasting long. Your posts will be laughed at after you get the boot. Is that what you want? Have you signed up at WideAwake yet? You know, someone else might have signed up with your login name if you don’t hurry, and you won’t be able to claim bragging rights after your freepercide.
THEY must not win. ANY of the Republican candidates is preferably to them (Hagel is NOT a Republican candidate, before you bring that up).
***So... Hagel having an R in front of his name doesn’t count, but rudy having that same R does? Doesn’t that make you a tool of Satan, as you have accused me of being by shedding light on a republican candidate?
Don’t serve them. That is all I ask.
***Well, since you ask, the answer is NO. What I ask is that you start drinking decaf, withdraw your offensive contention about Satan, consider going to another website that is GOP oriented rather than conservative oriented, and evaluate your own spiritual priorities.
All of your other arguments are BS, so long as you favor the success of a Dhimmicrat over a legitimate Republican.
***But, of course, Hagel isn’t a “legitimate” republican. You’re so much fun! We should keep you around just to see what else you come up with.
End of discussion.
***Probably the end of your freeping existence.
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