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To: kabar
So in essence many of the political appointments were accepted as govt. career employees with all the accompanying protections is what you are saying.

I get it, but I still wonder if there were individuals at posts in various govt. offices not to the liking of the President if he didn't have different ways of transferring them or making it so uncomfortable for them they would quit on their own.

In other words it seems reasonable to assume that if the President really wanted to get rid of someone in his govt. he might have a pretty good chance of doing so.

Bubba seemed to be able to pick and choose just about anyone he wanted.

This is your area I realize Kabar, so if I am President and want to get rid of someone, how do I go about it?

192 posted on 05/06/2007 7:40:33 AM PDT by rodguy911 (Support The New media, Ticket the Drive-bys, --America-The land of the Free because of the Brave-)
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To: rodguy911; kabar

I also think that a lot of the career people that got put into positions of power during the Clinton years were the overtly partisan ones, willing to “kiss Clinton’s ring” and make clear that they’re loyalty was to the Clintonistas and not to the country. From contacts I have who left both organizations in the 90s I know this to be the case in both the CIA and Pentagon.

The Clinton political appointees sought out and rewarded loyal bureaucrats. They stayed loyal to Billary even as career employees after the Clinton’s left office and have been waging a war against the Bush White House from day one.

The shadow government.


197 posted on 05/06/2007 7:46:33 AM PDT by Phsstpok (Often wrong, but never in doubt)
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To: rodguy911
So in essence many of the political appointments were accepted as govt. career employees with all the accompanying protections is what you are saying.

No, just the opposite. If you read the GAO Report, you will see that the number of political appointees and their jobs that were converted to career employees and career jobs was very small. The government employee unions watch this like a hawk, even though they favor the Dems generally. The bottom line is that there are not many Clinton holdovers nor will there be many Bush holdovers when his administration comes to a close.

In other words it seems reasonable to assume that if the President really wanted to get rid of someone in his govt. he might have a pretty good chance of doing so.

The President can get rid of anyone listed in the Plum Book, whether they are political appointees or career employees. The political appointees leave government, the career employees stay but go to other jobs, usually non-political appointee jobs. The President can not arbitrarily get rid of a career employee, only for reasons of cause and there is a lengthy process that must be followed. The President can use some pressure through his political appointees to move people around in the bureaucracy, but not get rid of them.

Bubba seemed to be able to pick and choose just about anyone he wanted.

Just a perception, not a fact.

This is your area I realize Kabar, so if I am President and want to get rid of someone, how do I go about it?

The President can remove anyone occupying a political appointee job. He can do it immediately. The elephant in the room is that no President can change the institutional culture of the bureaucracy. There is just a thin veneer of political appointees overseeing a huge bureaucracy. The CIA, DOD, State Department etc. have their own views of the world and biases. Presidents come and go, but the bureaucrats stay on. They can use red tape, leaks to the press, etc. to outlast and thwart their political masters. It is very difficult to implement change in the bureaucracy, especially trying to impose it from the outside.

282 posted on 05/06/2007 9:50:00 AM PDT by kabar
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To: rodguy911
Bubba seemed to be able to pick and choose just about anyone he wanted.

The Republican congress certainly did not try to thwart qualified Clinton appointees just because they were ultra-leftists. Ruth Bader Ginsberg is a case in point. When Bush became president, that nicy-nice stuff ended with a bang.

As for bureaucrats, they are mostly in the Dem corner from the start.

363 posted on 05/06/2007 4:53:19 PM PDT by Freee-dame
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