Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Colofornian; xzins

I always thought that it was “through grace ~we are saved through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.”
I always thought that the supposed “most correct book on earth” (never mind that God, forbid, would ever start pitting one Scripture versus another like Joseph Smith did) said: “We are saved by grace AFTER all you can do.”

This kind of grace, then, would never kick in til you’ve done all you can do. Who qualifies? Point out ONE person besides Jesus Christ who can say He’s done everything He could do. (By our sins of omission alone, we all flunk)

****

Than why is there this verse in the Bible

Isa. 62
11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

Philip. 2
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


867 posted on 05/06/2007 2:30:05 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 861 | View Replies ]


To: restornu
Well, it's about time someone explained that one to you, Resty, so you don't continue posting it in error to support your works for salvation based religion:

Philip. 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (KJV)

Philip. 2:122:12 So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out, 13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure. (Young's Literal Translation from the Greek) Notice the context: 'work out' can also be 'show forth'. You Mormon Apologists seem to think this 'show forth' means you have to do it because Jesus won't kick in His Grace until you've made Him owe it to you through your works of 'righteousness' ... which works are of course as filthy rags when done to earn His Righteousness offered to you as a gift through faith. As the Philippians would have 'shown forth' the evidence of their salvation in Paul's presence, he urges them to 'show forth' the evidence of their salvation in his absence, 'lest any man (or restornu) be found boasting'. As the 13th verese shows, it is God in them doing the work for His own good pleasure. If you study the scriptures in their context, you avoid many doctrinal or canon errors.

872 posted on 05/06/2007 3:00:32 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 867 | View Replies ]

To: restornu; xzins
Philip. 2 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I'm glad you raised the question.

First of all re: Phil 2:12, is Paul giving every human some recipe for salvation? Hardly. This letter is written very specifically to a church...not generic unbelievers.

Secondly we see an example where you wrestle a verse out of a vital context in search of a prooftext. Continue reading to PHIL. 2:13: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

Whose really doing the work THROUGH us? God the Holy Spirit, of which we are but a mere temple. So stop trying to claim credit and glory for the "worketh" which Paul says of is Him. (It's not very becoming when a co-worker claims credit for something you did, right? So stop. Repent. Tell the Holy Spirit you're sorry).

Thirdly, salvation = to be made whole by being rescued from something (spiritually from sin, the devil & death; physically this world). If you are totally disabled, tell me, what kind of "working out" can you do? If I was once disabled (and spiritually I was), and if I now am able to work out spiritually, then I'm exercising from a starting point where God has already healed me. Right?

All Paul is saying there: He's made you whole. He has already saved you (note how many times, for example, John talks about eternal life in the present tense..."have eternal life"--not "will have.") Now exercise that salvation with fear and trembling.

Is 62

As for Isaiah 62, read carefully. Zion is a "her" right? It doesn't say "HER" reward, right? It doesn't say "HER" work, right? It doesn't say that God has no choice but to reward the daughter of Zion as a part of "HER" reward. It's "His" reward and "His" work--it's the Lord's to give, right?

There are other verses you can pick that talk about "reward" or "crowns" that God gives to folks. But so what? The Bible talks about them, but always in the context of eternal life as a gift, right?

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

If I wanted to: I could give you an all-expense paid trip to some South Pacific island. A free, total gift. Then once there, I could give you some valuable things that you could enjoy as a type of reward that's tied to let's say, volunteer work you did.

Just because your behavior influenced me in deciding what "valuable things" to give you once you arrived in the South Pacific, doesn't mean you "earned" your way to the South Pacific.

Somehow, you would have us believe that by what great shape you are in (your ability to "work out"), you could walk on water to a South Pacific island. It doesn't work that way.

The distance to a South Pacific island minus a viable way to get there doesn't even begin to describe the distance to heaven minus a viable way to get there.

So let me give you a standard warning: "Don't try this at home."

885 posted on 05/06/2007 4:27:06 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 867 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson