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To: sevenbak
Helaman 12:24 And may God grant, in his great fullness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their works.

First of all, how have you quoted a verse here that really says anything different than the other BoM verse after grace kicking in only AFTER you've done everything you can do? What does this verse from Hell . say? That folks are restored unto grace how? ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS!!!!

Leave it to Joe Smith to just absolutely butcher the concept of grace! Grace means "favor" and "gift." It's not done according to merit. It's not earned. It's not meted out according to works, or according to all you can do.

What? If you have kids, at Christmas time when you hand out gifts to your kids, do they turn to you and say, "Dad. Great gift. Thanks. Just what I wanted. What did I do to deserve it." You say: "Nothing. I've given it to you out of my love."

"No Dad, really. If I'm not worthy or deserving of this gift, what can I do to earn it." [You get the picture. But just imagine that convo going back and forth, back and forth, endlessly so...where you just cannot convince the kid that it's free because he's read the BoM and totally associates grace with works...Pretty soon, you as a Dad would start to become offended...to think that your generosity is on sale to the highest bidder.]

1,239 posted on 05/08/2007 8:29:54 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Why did Noah find grace?

Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.

Just like:

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Why?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

1,298 posted on 05/08/2007 3:48:12 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: Colofornian
First of all, how have you quoted a verse here that really says anything different than the other BoM verse after grace kicking in only AFTER you've done everything you can do? What does this verse from Hell . say? That folks are restored unto grace how? ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS!!!!

Leave it to Joe Smith to just absolutely butcher the concept of grace! Grace means "favor" and "gift." It's not done according to merit. It's not earned. It's not meted out according to works, or according to all you can do.

James would disagree wit you: (and you don't have to shout)

James 2:

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not aRahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1,413 posted on 05/08/2007 11:50:23 PM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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