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To: Colofornian
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Why did Noah find grace?

Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.

Just like:

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Why?

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

1,298 posted on 05/08/2007 3:48:12 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: Netizen
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Why did Noah find grace? Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.

Will such duplicity never end?

Your "why?" is an insertion not in the text.

In fact, there is an apt reason why the content of Gen. 6:8 precedes the content of Gen. 6:9.

To hear your attempt to paraphrase this account, you would chronologically arrange it this way (I'll highlight a word NOT in the text to emphasize the sequence you're trying to prove): "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. Noah THEN found grace in the eyes of the Lord."

So why can't you just leave the text alone minus trying to twist it around. (The very meaning of distortion is to twist?)

Let me quote it AS it's arranged: "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

There. Grace was there at the foundation. Such grace aided His justice, his perfection among others, and and his relational walk with God. It certainly was also there for the endurance needed (and reputation hit) as he built the ark.

Now certainly if somebody wants to claim that God in his sovereignty and provision saw that Noah was going to be a "cut above" his neighbors, and He, therefore wove that grace into Noah's life...the text isn't explicit on that, but it might explain the v. 8 reference to the "eyes of the Lord." ("provision"--which means to see the need ahead of time & supply it...is a big thing in Gen...Gen 22, for example...so, likewise, God saw the need to "rescue" humanity from the violence and corruption (Gen 6:11-13) and began telling Noah specifications for the ark in v. 14.

1,361 posted on 05/08/2007 8:02:37 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Netizen
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Why? Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

First of all, when you take God at his word and apply it, yes that's obedience, but as you're about to see, it's primarily faith. You badly need a review of pre-Abraham's life--his life as Abram:

Why? 'Cause there ya go again. Starting at the end and trying impose that as the foundation that "forced" God's hand into "having" to bless Abraham because, wow, his greatness overwhelmed God.

Let's back up, shall we? Go to Gen. 12 when "Abraham" was Abram.

Who's the initiator in this relationship, Abraham or God? "Now the Lord said..." (Gen. 12:1). God? Good

Who blessed who? Was it Abram's lifestyle up til then that just blessed the socks off of God? (LDS, BTW, may have the only God who actually wears sox since he's a man like you me + a bit of immorta-li-ty...that could be made into a song)...Or possibly, just possibly, was it God who took the initiation in "blessing" Abraham: "I will bless thee..." (Gen 12:2). God again? Good.

Who made Abram's environs environmentally-friendly vs. environmentally hostile? Now was that Abram's great neighborly skills, his character, his moral prowess that did that? Or possibly, just possibly, was it God who said: "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee..." (Gen. 12:3). God yet again? Good.

Now what is it Abram's great Brigham Young pioneer skills that landed him a land? "And the Lord appeared unto Abram and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land..." (Gen 12:7) God yet again? Good.

As for Abram's character, was he a man of truth at this early juncture of that wowed God? Let's look at the text, shall we? Well, let's just cut to the paraphrase in Gen. 12 'cause we all know how he figured his beautiful wife put his own neck at risk. So what did Abram do? Well, despite the BIG PROMISE about cursing those who curse him (a big security blanket if you ask me), he went underground as a hubby, told his wife to lie about their relationship, and frankly, didn't trust God. [Wow! I guess that kind of blows your theory about what attracted God to him in the early-going, eh?]

Still, God didn't abandon him and say, "Oops! There goes your temple recommend! God said He would be his shield (Gen. 15:1). What aspects of his faith life got him going in the right direction?

(1) He trusted God to be a pilgrim and journey "as the Lord has spoken unto him" (Gen 12:4). "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." (Heb. 11:8)

(2) "He believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen. 15:6) In other words, He trusted in God, took Him as His Word (faith), and then lived out that faith.

(3) "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac;" (Heb. 11:17...see LDS look at what a man does and say, "See, works!!!" The Bible looks at what a man does and says, "See, faith!!! Faith in action!!! Faith that takes God at His word and applies to life!" )

Now before point #3 above, he started going off-course again, when his wife convinced him to have sex with the maid. [Now that would make an interesting Hollywood movie, right?]

So up until this point, besides exercising faith in points 1 & 2, what exactly did Abraham do that was so right before all of the commendations he rec'd in Gen. 26:5? I guess the sex-with-the-maid activity kind of blows your theory about the early-going morality of this man, eh? Oh, I'm sure it's possible he took the "high road" on this one...he only had sex with the maid to fulfull God's promise, right? Perhaps. Perhaps not. (The text doesn't say...I'm sure folks like Joseph took all of the extra wives because God told him, too, right?)

Anyway, what was the result of that experience? Did God bless this "end-run tactic?" Well, folks now say that the people groups that resulted from the child born to the maid, are the folks who are now the biggest rivals to Jews and Christians: Muslims. What does the text say? "And the angel of the Lord said unto her...he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him..." (Gen. 16:11-12)...

Now God then had enough of that. He decided it was time for a sit-down, drawn-up covenant time with Abram in Gen. 17. Abram was now 90. He told Abram to "walk before me, and be thou perfect" (Gen. 17:1) So He made a covenant w/Him; ensured that his elderly wife would become pregnant (you're not going to tell me it was because of His wonderful bedroom talent that she got pregnant, are you?)

From that point on, the sinful Abram has been projected to become the patriarch Abraham. The name marks a point of conversion, where God begins to transform the man. He becomes an intercessor in Gen. 18. But was he "perfect" as instructed to be in Gen. 17:1? Hardly!!! For every step forward, there's a step back. Abraham reverts to his "wife is my sister" routine in Gen. 20 (even for an elderly wife) and God has to intervene for this patriarch, this prophet, this healer--but only a healer through praying to the God who heals (Gen. 20:17).

Even Abraham's "obedience" which was crucial to depict a Father who was giving His son as a Sacrifice, like our Father in heaven would do His Son, was billed in Heb. 11:17 as "faith"--trusting God--rather than overemphasizing "obedience" and works.

Now Abraham in the last part of his life was exactly as Gen. 26:5 reads. But that's not what "attracted" grace to His life.

Any other biblical characters that you would like to twist their life story? (Actually, you have excellent resume qualities to be a Hollywood script writer)

1,363 posted on 05/08/2007 8:54:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
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