Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
To put it another way, our God is three "Who's" in one "What." Who is God? Father, Son, and Spirit. What is God? ONE GOD.
Well put. Mormons confuse the "Who" with the "What". That's why when they ask a question about "Jesus praying to Himself", as they put it, as if that somehow 'disproves' the Trinity, all they are doing is revealing their confusion of the Persons and their dividing the indivisible substance of the Deity. There is only 1 God, indivisible, eternal and immutable, the only God who exists and Who says that He knows of no other God.
A radish has the nature of a radish. There is more than 1 radish being with the nature of a radish. A human being has a human nature. There is more than 1 human being with a human nature. With God, though, there is only 1 Being with a Divine nature. There are not 3 (or more) God Beings. The unique nature of this God is a trinuity of 3 Persons (not"3 beings" ). There is none like Him and there will be none after Him. In other words, there is no waiting list to become a God.
Cordially,
Luke 24: 12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. (And these two still did not realize Whom He was with them!)
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
It is useful to see how scripture passages lend meaning by their context and the setting. In this case, Cleopas and his companion were down in the mouth and the stranger seemed unaware of why they were so sad, so they shared their knowledge of the events, without giving their meaning to them since their sadness witnessed of their failed comprehension. THEN Jesus gave them the context in which His empty sepulchre could be understood, opening for them the scriptures whith which they were familiar. But even then their eyes were not opened though they had been given the scriptural context of the events they saw culminating with an empty sepulchre. When Jesus broke bread and blessed it and gave it to them THEN were their eyes opened for they had remembrance of the new covenant He established with them prior to the cross, in His body and blood.
Religions focus upon events without proper context, and built doctrinal edifices for the glory of men. God, in the person of the Holy SPirit, focuses upon the Grace of God in Christ, renewing ... in this case, renewing the minds of Cleopas and his companion!
Oh cry me a river!
Mormons so desperately want to be called “Christians” that they are now playing the same hand as the homosexual lobby. Anyone that calls them a cult, and has a concern about their fantasy-based faith and its potential influence is now a bigot and intolerant. This is no different than homosexuals’ accusations against anyone who dares call their sexual behavior perverse.
Nope, I’m not voting for Mitt; mostly because he’s a liberal in a conservative suit, but also because he’s a Mormon. Call me what you like, but I vote my values, and my religious beliefs go into the polls with me.
We are seeing that here....coming soon to a TV ad near you.
Thank you so much for the passage and for sharing your insights!
No thanks anyway... ;^)
It's getting REAL close to kick the dust of yer feet time in the other one!
And the old RLDS even changed there name to 'fit in' better!
Community of Christ cofchrist.org
I'm stuck to ANOTHER TarBaby!
Imagine, two of Jesus’s own disciples, with whom he had broken bread just days before, couldn’t recognize Him when He opened the scriptures to them. Were they too busy wrangling with the possible different meanings they could remember in scripture or from the temple leaders which they felt substantiated their false assumption that He had been defeated with crucifizxion? Isn't that what we're seeing with this cult phenomenon?
It wasn’t until He broke bread and blessed it and gave it to them that they had the darkness lifted! Do ya suppose that is related to the necessity for the Eucharist and Apostolic Authority? The burning in the bosom thingy might be lifted with the body and blood of the LIVING Christ, offered by those in Apostolic Authority. Ya think?
No. This burning in the busom thingy will not be lifted through some mystical ritual which non-Christians are specifically prohibited from participating in anyway, lest they eat and drink unto themselves damnation. If you think that giving the Eucharist to non-believers is going to make them open their eyes to the error of their ways, then you need to take another look at the whole ceremony and ritual. It is only for disciples to partake of and not seekers and not unbelievers.
The Holy Spirit will convict these people in due time and in due course. You will not, by your own arguments or by the application of some mystical ritual bring them to the foot of the cross. That is not your job. That is the job of the Holy Spirit and the harder you try to do the Holy Spirit's job, the more frustrated you will become with the results.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. It is the hearing of Word of God and the drawing of Christ unto himself (and nothing else) which will draw a man to Christ. Your best bet, if you wish to be a part of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, is to simply present the Word of God and let the Holy Spirit bring faith. If they are open to the leading of the Holy Spirit, then they will come when he calls. If they are not open, then they will not hear when he calls.
It was not some brilliant argument that brought me out of Mormonism and into a relationship with the true and living Christ. Nor was it some ritual or sacrament. It was the Holy Spirit. Others may have participated in the process, by presenting the Word of God so that I might hear it. They didn't do it by calling me an idiot or saying I was mired is spiritual darkness. Those who are mired in spiritual darkness are often convinced that what they see is light. It is not their fault. You cannot logically convince them that the light that they see is darkness. That is something that requires spiritual discernment and THAT is a gift of God.
Carry on.
NO.
A study of the Old Testament descriptions of the Temple, the Holy place, will render a comparison of the showbread table to the Word of God found in scriptures which are processed through the mind, not the emotions, not the will, but the mind, and 'be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind'. Keeping up the 'nourishment' for the presence of the Holy Spirit within, is essential to proper functioning of the mind being transformed, and failure to partake of the Eucharist starves the struggling soul/spirit.
We LDS types take the Sacrament (Communion) every Sunday and it is a wonderful uplifting Spiritual blessing. We use bread and water. If you want to argue about why we drink water instead of WINE or grape juice, well, of course, Mormons don’t drink alcohol so there goes the wine, and grape juice is not always readily available in poor places but water is. We take the Sacramento to remember the sacrifice of Jesus Christ - His Body and Blood - given for us to save us from our sins. Jesus Christ told us to do it to remember Him and His sacrifice on our behalf.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is my Savior, Lord, Redeemer and I love Him.
Yikes! I typed “Sacramento” when I meant Sacrament in the previous post. Ooops! I probably have Sacramento on my mind because so much goofy stuff happens there that needs to be watched.
bump
Well, I hope you don't drink orange juice or use mouthwash.
Laboratory samplings of commonly consumed fruit juices and sugar-based soft drinks purchased from a supermarket (and tested right from the carton the day they were put on the store shelf) all showed measurable amounts of ethanol, up to 0.1 percent.
So if you want to be consistent, you will not drink any fresh fruit drink or soft drink. Frankly I never understood the LDS idea that you could substitute water for the fruit of the vine. While you might have an argument that you should use grape juice (since it is the fruit of the vine), there is no biblical basis that I can even imagine for using tap water.
Now in that regard, I can't help but notice that the Catholics have solved this problem by removing the wine from the sacrament altogether. So MHG, is it truly a biblical Eucharist if there is no wine???
Do you (MHG) think that so many Catholics might be converting to Mormonism because the Church has refused to give them the whole Eucharist (body and blood)?
Or is the blood superfluous?
I am reminded of the analogies regarding the wine press and the fruit of the vine and the vineyard parables ... Jesus turned water into wine, not wine into water. When the life is in the blood, it isn’t about the water content, it is about the life carrying components.
Transubstantiation might be construed to infer water is fully efficacious in the Eucharist, but then wouldn’t Jesus have changed wine somewhere into water instead of water into wine to complete the wedding festivities?
I am of the school which believes the wedding miracle was the opening of His ministry to reach culmination with Gesthemane. He started His witness to men with water into wine and brought it to a close with sweating as it were great drops of His own blood much the way a winepress crushes out the fluid of the grape for transformation into wine. Then He was crucified for us. Using water in the Eucharist would be rather anemic, not to mention a confusion when baptism in water is in the salvation transformation equation.
I’m just a simple girl, FReeper pal. Grape juice, wine, or water - represents the precious Blood of our Savior which was shed for us sinners. Jesus Christ paid the price. When I used to be a Baptist we had Communion about once a month at an evening service. I am happy that the LDS Church has it every Sunday. I think it’s neat that the Catholics celebrate the eucharist every chance they get.
Well, I hate to kick a guy when he is down, but the Eucharist is a principle staple of Episcopalian ritual and I suspect that guys like Vicky Gene Robinson take the Eucharist at least every week and it does not appear that taking the Eucharist for him and for millions of other Episcopalians has been in any way effective in keeping him or his church from falling into the gravest of errors.
So when you start arguing that something like an Episcopalian Eucharist "offered by those in Apostolic Authority" might just turn a Mormon from the error of his ways, I have to laugh. Heck apparently a majority of those in your Church who carry with them this so-called "Apostolic Authority" have fallen into apostasy themselves. So how can we expect that those apostates can use their authroized eucharistic ritual to turn a budding Mormon from the error of his ways?
The fact of the matter is that despite the fact that your church gives the Eucharist to its members every week, your church is in just as much of a state of apostasy as the Mormons.
Gee! If the Episcopalians are doing it, it must be right!
NOT!
It’s hard to wield moral authority when the guy trying to do it is bunk buddies with your weird Uncle Butch.
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