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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: FastCoyote

“I am neither Mormon nor Catholic. I object as stridently to Scientologists who have a similar view of their own ascendency.”

Ah, but you notice that we own up to it if it is an accurate representation of our beliefs - no matter how strange you may find it.


2,681 posted on 05/16/2007 6:43:07 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: FastCoyote

“Oh come now, you have hated me for quite a while, why not be truthful to the rest here and tell us how ill you really think of me.”

Why would I hate you? In my view, you’re just wrong; I am too, about a lot of things.

I only express displeasure at your insistence at spreading rumors you have been informed were false.

“You weren’t so shy in your personal message to me, which was quite virulent to the point of delusion...”

My personal message to you was frank, not virulent. It was made, if you recall, to the comparison you made between Mormons and vampires. I also took the opportunity to very clearly express to you that neither you nor anybody else will stop God’s work - a sentiment with which I’m sure you will agree. We only disagree as to God’s means.

That you chose to be offended at my clarity is not my lookout.

“I may have missed some revelation of yours that Joseph Smith walked on water...”

We never said that, and I’m not aware that Joseph ever did.

“...or that husbands really don’t have to call out their wives secret names.”

Problem is that a lot of us have said it; I have said it three or four times myself. So you must have “missed” quite a lot.


2,682 posted on 05/16/2007 6:50:28 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: tantiboh

“Ah, but you notice that we own up to it if it is an accurate representation of our beliefs - no matter how strange you may find it.”

You haven’t owned up to squat. Enough evidence that Joseph Smith was a fraud has been presented to sink a battleship.


2,683 posted on 05/16/2007 7:17:05 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

It is so tedious being told what people think we believe.


2,684 posted on 05/16/2007 7:20:47 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy ( Mitt has the best hair!)
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To: FastCoyote

“Enough evidence that Joseph Smith was a fraud has been presented to sink a battleship.”

That’s what they said about Jesus Christ.


2,685 posted on 05/16/2007 7:24:54 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy ( Mitt has the best hair!)
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To: Netizen
First, you did find this verse in the Bible. Jesus said it.

I believe he was referring to Proverbs:

Ps. 82: 6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. This is my best guess, since Christ did not say which scripture he was referring to. All I know is that he made it very clear. People today would stone us for saying the same thing. Some things never change I suppose.

2,686 posted on 05/16/2007 7:51:16 AM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Saundra Duffy
It is more disturbing that their lack of civility has them impugning the virtue of our women. Reminds me of the drunkards who would taunt and rail at the Prophet when they had him in chains. Why did the mobs always paint their faces black to conceal their identities? Again, some things never change.
2,687 posted on 05/16/2007 7:54:57 AM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: DelphiUser

I’ve not seen that before. Thank you for a good post.


2,688 posted on 05/16/2007 7:57:27 AM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Bonaparte
On page 58 of the same thesis, Rodney Turner declares: "A careful, detached study of his available statements, as found in the official publications of the Church, will admit of no other conclusion than that the identification of Adam with God the Father by President Brigham Young is an irrefutable fact."

My Great Grand father who’s name was Homer Redd is second cousins with Bruce R McConkie (the R is for Redd), I live in the same ward with his daughter.

We like to discuss doctrinal points and she told me that when she was young they had Joseph Fielding smith over for dinner and her father asked President Smith what Brigham Young meant by that phrase. He told them. It does NOT mean that Adam and God are the same person. He also said since the information is not necessary to our salvation, the Lord instructed Brigham Young not to teach it and that is why this has never publicly been taught, nor corrected. He was not supposed to be teaching it in the first place, some times even prophets slip up and say more than they mean to. Simply put, it’s not important; Jesus Christ is and should be the focus of our study and faith. Now, who is Rodney Turner, and why should I believe him over my great, great aunt?
2,689 posted on 05/16/2007 8:03:40 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Bonaparte
Mormon 1: I prayed on it and God revealed to me that I'm right and you're wrong.
Mormon 2: Gee, that's kinda funny, because I prayed too and he told me just the opposite.


God told me that joke is not funny!

But I had already laughed, so…
2,690 posted on 05/16/2007 8:08:01 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: FastCoyote
I worked in Hong Kong, and I’m a Milton Friedman fan, so I am well aware of “bank notes”. However, a failed bank that operated without a charter is not much more than a counterfeiting machine. If it walks like a fraud and quacks like a fraud, it’s darn likely a fraud. It isn’t just the $3 bill, it’s Joseph Smith’s signature word and bond.

Today you would be correct, back then it was uncommon for a bank to have a charter.

"You can't measure then by now" - My HS History teacher.
2,691 posted on 05/16/2007 8:11:10 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: sittnick

I just don’t get it.

I’m a fundamentalist Christian. I would vote for an individual on the basis of their political philosophy, not their religion - as long as they are not Muslims.

Romney isn’t high on my hit parade, but if he gets nominated I would support and vote for him, which is more than I can say for JulieAnnie or McClown.

We are electing the President of the United States, not selecting a minister.

Although some Mormon beliefs are rather bizarre to non-Mormons, they have strong moral values and have long ago renounced polygamy.

Opposing Romney because of Mountain Meadows and Bringham Young makes as much sense as not voting for a Catholic because of the Spanish Inquisition or a Anglican because the Star Chamber.


2,692 posted on 05/16/2007 8:17:26 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: FastCoyote
I Said: “All religions have members that embarrass them, if not, I can always join.”

You said: Quite true. My problem is not that you might have flawed characters, they could be forgiven, but that you claim gods walk among you.

This is not quite correct, we claim that you have never known a mere mortal for we are all god’s children.

A lot of the people on this thread who are not Mormons seem to think we think better of our selves because of this belief, and they miss the obvious that we think better of you too. We cannot claim to be children of God without elevating you to the same status. It’s not pride, it either is or it isn’t true, and if (humor me for a moment please) it is true then you have every bit as much potential to become a God as I do.

Mormons think better of you than you think of yourself, and you fight with us about it!

To a Mormon, you are just as much a future God as we are. You might even be further down the road than we are.

So it is not that Gods walk among us, as we are all Gods walking among each other and not realizing it.

As you were, Oh and thanks for agreeing that if a church didn’t have enough embarrassing members, I could join, maybe they could use the both of us? /Humor
2,693 posted on 05/16/2007 8:25:10 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Colofornian

What church were you baptized into?

Secondly, once again, you show you are in Scriptural error. (Will you at least 'fess up this time?) We are not baptized into a church or into an organization or into an institution or into a denomination (at least I was not).

I was baptized into a Person. A very specific Person. Or do you deny Romans 6:3? (Go ahead. Read it)

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Rom. 6:3)

By emphasizing mere men above Jesus Christ, you are a divider of the faith like Paul says (1 Cor. 3:3-5, 21-23)

This is one of the profoundest answers to a post I've ever seen.

Cordially,

2,694 posted on 05/16/2007 8:31:05 AM PDT by Diamond
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To: Netizen
Here are a few links to answer your question on John 10:34:
Psalms 82:6
Isaiah 41:23
For truly it is written ask and ye shall receive.
2,695 posted on 05/16/2007 8:36:22 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: FastCoyote
“Ah, but you notice that we own up to it if it is an accurate representation of our beliefs - no matter how strange you may find it.”

You haven’t owned up to squat. Enough evidence that Joseph Smith was a fraud has been presented to sink a battleship


Interesting, you will only accept the conclusion, not the evidence, interesting.

FC, in your studies of Mormonism have you ever encountered one shred of evidence that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God?
2,696 posted on 05/16/2007 8:42:08 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DanielLongo; Netizen; MHGinTN
I refer to those who do not receive the word of God because it was never preached to them. Are they saved in your estimation? What happens to them?

Romans 2:12
"For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law."

Romans 1: 19,20.
"...that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

There's nothing wrong with God giving people what they deserve.

Cordially,

2,697 posted on 05/16/2007 8:44:39 AM PDT by Diamond
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To: nowandlater
Oh bye the way, I am encouraging all those who care to comment on Mormonism to check out at least one of the Mormon songs of worship on my homepage

I didn't see this song on your home page. Perhaps you didn't feel it would further your prosletysing?

This hymn was written by Phelps to the memory of Joseph Smith, who was assassinated at Carthage Jail, Carthage, Illinois, on June 27, 1844.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Chorus:

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2,698 posted on 05/16/2007 9:01:45 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: DelphiUser

“FC, in your studies of Mormonism have you ever encountered one shred of evidence that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God?”

No, I can sincerely tell you that having made a lifetime hobby of examining odd religions, you beat even the Scientologists for the “not even close” award. I had the president of the Moonies tell me the Reverend walked across a plaza and lightening bolts came down - am I to reject him (who many believed was a reincarnation of Jesus) and not be sceptical of Joseph Smith’s claim to translating hieroglyphic with a seer stone? I met the son of the late comedian Steve Allen, nutty as a loon, banging pans in worship at their storefront church in Seattle. Same question applies.

And I can certainly accept that a certain amount of slippage will occur when well meaning people try to find a path to God.

But Mormons really take the cake. Joseph Smith has so many leading indicators towards being an utter fraud that I’d rather roll the dice with Mary Baker Eddy or L. Ron.

That’s how far I’ve been convinced by this thread in opposition, this nailed the lid shut.


2,699 posted on 05/16/2007 9:58:23 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: greyfoxx39
Your rendition of the song is interesting, where did you find a version that says "Stain Illinois”? Here is a link to the church's website with the song as the church publishes it.

I know JR tries to keep copyright stuff all on the up and up, may I suggest if you want to post a song that the church owns the copyright for you link to their site where it is up with permission.
2,700 posted on 05/16/2007 9:58:24 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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