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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: restornu
Your website contains at least one flat-out lie.

All of the adults and older children were slain in battle. Seventeen younger children were spared and later placed in an orphanage in St. Louis.

ALL combatants are NEVER "slain in battle." There are always survivors, even if wounded. Unless you kill them.

In this case the Mormons pretended they would protect the emigrants against the "Indians" if they gave up their arms and surrendered. While marching them away, they shot the men down on signal, then murdered all the women and all but the youngest children. There is some evidence the Utes participated in the killing of the women and children, or even did most of it. Not that turning them over to the Indians mitigates the guilt of the Mormon participants.

A more despicable and dishonorable betrayal cannot be found in American history. Even at Goliad and the Alamo the women and children were left unharmed.

Whether all the other claims on the site about the misbehavior of the "Missouri Wildcats" are true or not is disputed. It seems likely rumors were running all over southwest Utah at the time, and we all know rumors aren't always accurate and that people embellish them in passing them on, even when they don't intend to. I'm sure many of the Mormons who participated in the massacre believed them all.

But nothing can justify what they did. Nothing.

1,081 posted on 05/07/2007 2:35:30 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Sherman Logan you conveniently left this out

So when these Missourians traveling through Utah boasted that they had been active in the Missouri persecutions of the Mormons, those were the memories their words recalled.

But of greater concern were the acts of the Missouri Wildcats as they traveled farther through Utah—they began to destroy the Mormons’ crops and tear down the fences and to systematically poison the water springs.

Added to this were their repeated threats that they would bring hundreds of men back from California and would then kill every Mormon that was in the mountains.

At Corn Creek, 15 miles south of Fillmore, the Missourians put arsenic in the spring and strychnine in an ox carcass which was fed to local idians. Ten of the indians died, along with a Mormon settler. Many of the Mormon cattle drank the water and also died.

As theMissouri WIldcats traveled farther south they poisoned wells and springs at numerous places along their route.

To poison the water and destroy the meager crops in late summer, in that barren southern Utah outpost are, was literally an act of intended murder—for how could the settlers survive for more than a day or two in the heat of summer without water in that arid desert?


1,082 posted on 05/07/2007 2:37:41 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: Sherman Logan

A renegade group did this you are trying to blame the Church as a whole, and you know it is only wishful thinking because you don’t like Mormons are you would not have gone there!

Pure simple Sherman Logan!


1,083 posted on 05/07/2007 2:46:23 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: higgmeister
Presbyterians?

Presbyterians are Calvinists and there are plenty of bloody episodes in Calvinist history, all the way back to John Calvin himself, who participated in the burning at the stake of Michael Servetus, who had the nerve to hold a different opinion about God than John did.

The Parliamentarians who fought and eventually beheaded King Charles I were largely Presbyterians. (Well, the leaders were, initially. It's complicated.)

1,084 posted on 05/07/2007 2:48:19 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: restornu

Oh resty, even the Church admits that John D. Lee acted along with about 50 other Mormons and at least two that were his commanders - the PIUTES were only icing on the cake.

Please don’t say things that can be proven false. It hurts your position


1,085 posted on 05/07/2007 2:49:17 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H.)
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To: colorcountry

If you read the link

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/kevgram/meadow.html it talks about that!


1,086 posted on 05/07/2007 2:51:56 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: higgmeister
jobs ads were posted with "no Irish need apply" in newspapers and at the hiring companies.

A historian recently researched it and could find almost no contemporary evidence for it ever happening. Less than ten examples in tens of thousands of newspapers he reviewed over decades.

But many thousands of Irish "remembered" it vividly.

http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

1,087 posted on 05/07/2007 2:52:25 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: restornu

Do you read my posts?

I stated that whether the Missouri Wildcats did these things is debated, that it is likely some of the reports were unsubstantiated rumors, and that many of the Mormon men participating in the massacre probably believed all the rumors to be fact.

Tell me, when did bragging, boasting and perhaps even well poisoning justify killing 10 year old girls?


1,088 posted on 05/07/2007 2:55:37 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: restornu

Talk about half truths. No mention whatsoever of
Colonel William Dame, and Isaac Haight.

Here is a link to the court transcripts perhaps you will belive those....but then again?

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeaccount.html

Excerpt:

“Over the next three days, Mormon reinforcements, totally about 100 men, continued to arrive at the battle scene. Men on horseback carried messages back to Haight, and his immediate superior in the Nauvoo Legion and head of southern Utah forces, William Dame. Dame reportedly reiterated his determination to not less the emigrants pass: “My orders are that all the emigrants [except the youngest children] must be done away with.” On September 10, the messenger send to Salt Lake City arrived and handed Haight’s letter to Young. Young, according to published Mormon reports, sent the messenger back to Haight with a note telling him to let the Indians “do as they please,” but—as for Mormon participation in the siege—if the emigrants will leave Utah, “let them go in peace.” The message will be too late.”

Most of the Paiutes had left after growing weary of the siege and could play no role in the bloody conclusion. The plan was devious, but effective. Major John Higbee, in command of the forces at Mountain Meadows, persuaded John Lee and William Bateman to act as decoys to draw the emigrants out from the protection of their wagons. Lee and Bateman, carrying a white flag, marched across the field to the emigrants’ camp. The desperate emigrants agreed to the terms promised by Lee: They would give up their arms, wagons, and cattle, in return for promise that they would not be harmed as they embarked on a 35-mile hike back to Cedar City. Samuel McMurdy, a member of the Nauvoo Legion, took the reigns of one of the wagons into which were loaded some of the youngest children. A woman and a few seriously injured emigrant men were loaded into a second wagon. John Lee positioned himself between the two wagons as they pulled out. Following the two wagons, the women and the older children of the Fancher party walked behind. After the wagons had moved on, Higbee ordered the emigrant men to begin walking in single file. An armed Mormon “guard” escorted each emigrant man.

When the escorted men had fallen a quarter mile or so behind the women and children, who had just crested a small hill, Higbee yelled, “Halt! Do your duty!” Each of the Mormon men shot and killed the emigrant at his side. Meanwhile, on the other side of the hill, Nelphi Johnson shouted the order to begin the slaughter of the women and older children. Men rushed at the defenseless emigrants from both sides, and the killing went on amidst “hideous, demon-like yells.” Nancy Huff, four years old at the time of the massacre, later remembered the horror: “I saw my mother shot in the forehead and fall dead. The women and children screamed and clung together. Some of the young women begged the assassins after they run out on us not to kill them, but they had no mercy on them, clubbing their guns and beating out their brains.” It was over in just a few minutes. 120 members of the Fancher party were dead. The youngest children, seventeen or eighteen in all, were gathered up, to later be placed in Mormon homes. None of the survivors was over seven years old.

The next day, Colonel Dame and Lt. Colonel Haight visited the site of the massacre with John Lee and Philip Klingensmith. Lee, in his confession, described the field on that day: “The bodies of men, women and children had been stripped entirely naked, making the scene one of the most loathsome and ghastly that can be imagined.” Dame appeared shocked by what he found. “I did not think there were so many of them [women and children], or I would not have had anything to do with, Dame reportedly said. Haight, angered by Dame’s remark, expressed concern that Dame might try to blame him for an action that Dame had ordered. The men agreed on one thing, however: Mormon participation in the massacre had to be kept secret. Within twenty-fours hours, Haight had another reason for concern. Brigham Young’s reply to his inquiry arrived in Cedar City. “Too late, too late,” Haight said as he read Young’s letter and began to cry.


1,089 posted on 05/07/2007 3:00:33 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H.)
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To: Sherman Logan
Wow! Yes of course, I was forgetting the “Calvinist roundheads.” How could I have forgotten that!
1,090 posted on 05/07/2007 3:02:18 PM PDT by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken)
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To: colorcountry; restornu; Sherman Logan

So much for the theory that one Mormon and Utes carried out the massacre.


1,091 posted on 05/07/2007 3:02:59 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H.)
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To: higgmeister

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/massacre/sandcreek.html


1,092 posted on 05/07/2007 3:05:35 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: restornu

I’m not trying to blame the Church as a whole, not even the 1857 Church, much less the LDS Church of today.

With a little digging you can find bloody episodes in almost every religion’s history. The only difference generally being how far back you have to go.

BTW, here’s a link to an excellent short even-handed discussion of the MMM.

http://www.youknow.com/chris/essays/misc/mtnmeadows.html


1,093 posted on 05/07/2007 3:07:59 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: colorcountry

BTW, these were Paiutes, not Utes, who mostly lived farther east.

The Paiutes were generally called Diggers and were never considered a serious threat by a well-armed party such as the Fancher train.


1,094 posted on 05/07/2007 3:10:55 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: colorcountry

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/massacre/meadows.html


1,095 posted on 05/07/2007 3:11:58 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: colorcountry

But isn’t deception FOR the church winked at? Don’t blame the poster who may not have all the truth ...


1,096 posted on 05/07/2007 3:12:42 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Sherman Logan
I said as much in my post #1085.

I can’t believe that there are Mormons alive that still think John D. Lee massacred 120 people with the help of one of the most forlorn tribes in America.

BTW, I am a descendant of John D. Lee. He didn’t do it alone. The idea is ludicrous.

1,097 posted on 05/07/2007 3:17:42 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H.)
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To: colorcountry

The part of about the MO. wildcats and poison water can not be ignored of disturbing the indians and the settlers would cause anyone to be jumpy. So those living in that area took things on their own instead of listing to council!


1,098 posted on 05/07/2007 3:19:35 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: Colofornian

It doesn’t matter, Colo. My fellow LDS Freepers and I don’t go around bashing your church - although, I’m sure, there would be plenty with which to bash it were we motivated to start digging; no organization is immune from such scrutiny.

What we ask is that you stop bashing ours, and start sticking to the issues.

We’re going in circles now. I’m done discussing this topic with you.


1,099 posted on 05/07/2007 3:26:50 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: colorcountry

No one said lee did it alone CC but it was an independ move there was no consensus to do that!


1,100 posted on 05/07/2007 3:27:55 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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