Posted on 04/16/2007 4:29:04 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
***... Mr. Giuliani maintains a big lead over his Republican rivals in the polls yet has all the wrong policy positions on social issues such as abortion and homosexual rights considered key to cultivating Christian conservatives. However, some evangelicals and pro-life Catholics seem willing to overlook his faults -- including his two divorces -- in the belief that he is the only Republican actually running who can defeat the Democratic nominee in 2008.
Still, Mr. Giuliani and conservative Christians "probably have irreconcilable differences on life and family and that kind of thing," said Mr. Falwell, adding, "I couldn't support him for president."
Nor is Mr. Dobson in Mr. Giuliani's cheering section.
"I do not believe that the current excitement over Giuliani will continue," Mr. Dobson told U.S. News & World Report.
Richard Land, president of the Religious and Ethics Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, takes a hard line against virtually all the major Republican candidates. He says he'd vote for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, New York Democrat, over Mr. Giuliani if the 2008 presidential race came down to such a choice. And if Mr. Giuliani wins, "he'll do so without social conservatives," Mr. Land said. .....
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
He is absolutely right, in my opinion.
Unfortunately, this flies in the face of the GOP's successful fear-based electioneering of the past 5 years.
If Rino Rudy is nominated there is no way conservatives can win. So I for one will go third party. I did not leave the republican party they left me.
According to you Rooty Tooters, nothing makes us special. You want us out, you’re getting your wish. Be happy, but don’t come crying to us when the results aren’t what you expected.
He's the candidate for those who wish to sell us out for some prosperity, or for those who have given up on America, but I don't see how support for him at this stage is conscionable.
Have you noticed the more the uber-extremists at FR have their knickers knotted the more secure Rudy is? He gains the middleground by disclaiming those who the middleground hold in contempt; uber conservatives.
Who wants Pat Buchanan in the White House?
Rudy has said to critics like you, he hates abortion, would counsel against it and encourage adoption.
Rudy says to critics like you, that he understands the 2nd Amendment but to clean up the crime, graft and rot in NYC he had to take tough measures.
Rudy has told critics like you, he is against gay marriage but for civil contracts.
If you had any idea who he is & what BibChr is about, you would never have resorted to namecalling & sarcasm in your original post to him.
So my advice to you is check the source before you give a knee jerk response....'Kay :^
That’s cool.
DRAMA QUEEN!
Don't fool yourself, if Duncan Hunter were to magically rise in the poles you would find the same divisiveness displayed. He is not sullied because he is not on the radar.
Nobody wants you out. They want you to realize that sometimes people have to give a little to get anything. A little pragmatism and long-term thinking for once.
You know...like adults.
But then turns around and says the GOP should not make abortion an issue for the 2008 elections.
So much for your efforts to paint him as pro-life. He doesn't even think it should be an issue in the GOP.
A little? A LITTLE?
Rudy wants the GOP to abandon the abortion issue. He is pro-gun control. Pro gay agenda.
Just for starters.
The fact that so many Rudy critics are also fans of Fred shows we are not 100 percenters like the Rudy boosters claim.
However, we want someone from the center of the GOP. Not the far left of the GOP like Rudy.
More than a little has been given over the past several decades...when does it stop?
A little pragmatism and long-term thinking for once.
Long-term means not selling out for short-term comfort--such as "winning" something that's detrimental. Long-term means demonstrating that good principles might not win today, but are better than abandoning them and continuing to lose slowly.
(Unless, perhaps, you don't believe principled conservatism is demonstrably better than the alternative. If that's the case, then I can't argue against your support of Mr. Giuliani.)
They are so blind that they can't even see that every time they call us "one-issue voters" they are just proving that they are totally out of touch with reality. They are twisting and contorting to defend Rudy no matter what the topic.
I'm in total disbelief that I'm on a thread on FR and "so called conservatives" are insinuating that Bush was a draft dodger or that his service to our country wasn't honorable. And, others are telling us that we should just not even take in to account a candidate's honorable military record or the circumstances of their non-military record. It's just freaking insane.
He's president of the Southeastern Baptist Seminary in Louisville, KY, and he's no idiot.
I agree with him on not voting for Giuliani, but not on voting for Hillary. If Giuliani is the GOP nominee I will vote for a conservative 3rd party candidate, but I would never vote for Hillary under any circumstances.
I would support Land sitting out the election on principle.
I don’t know what principle he would use to vote FOR Hillary Clinton over Rudy.
Now, if Hillary was a pro-life, pro-2nd-amendment democrat, I could understand a person voting his philosophy over party.
But as liberal as Rudy is, I can’t think of any issue of importance where Rudy is more liberal or more wrong than Hillary.
Hillary does of course have much more experience with the issues that effect this country, having sat in the White house for 8 years and having served in a federal legislature for another 7 years. That gives here a much broader understanding of the concerns of the world than a guy who was nothing more than mayor of a single city.
But experience isn’t everything, and for Land, who certainly is voting morals, the only morals Hillary has over Rudy is that Hillary never got divorced, even when her husband cheated on her. For whatever reason, she did keep her vow to stay married.
I think the many, many, MANY Rudy threads on this forum illustrate a political shift in the making. Clearly, social conservatives and the Republican Party are about to part ways. The pro-life commitment of many GOP politicians has been cynical and half-hearted at best, and now it’s no secret that the values dearest to many of us are objects of ridicule to some of the people we had considered our allies and even our leaders. The Rudybots here keep taunting us, “So where will you go? Nobody else wants you either!” But if Rudy gets the nomination, I expect some enterprising soul will come up with an option for us, if not in 2008 then soon thereafter.
Well, to be honest, as stupid has his vote would be, in the state he lives in voting for Hillary will be a throwaway vote, because even Rudy can win that state.
But I don’t think he’ll REALLY vote for hillary, I think he’s just being overwrought, like how all the pro-Rudy people answer any complaints about Rudy with “So I guess you just want Hillary to be the next President”.
Land is just saying himself what the pro-Rudy people would say about him if he didn’t.
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