Conversation with Duncan Hunter #2
Posted on 04/14/2007 10:14:39 AM PDT by Spiff
Giuliani's cross-dressing antics back in spotlight
NEW YORK -- It is difficult to shock New Yorkers, yet Rudy Giuliani teetered close to the line when he sauntered onto a stage wearing a platinum-blond wig, a face full of makeup, dainty white gloves and a frilly pink gown filled out in all the right places.
His appearance at an annual political roast was exactly 10 years ago, and at the time, the idea of the tough-talking mayor in a busty ball gown raised eyebrows but was mostly accepted as a good joke -- adhering to an unwritten rule for the shenanigans that take place at the roast, known as the Inner Circle dinner.
Shortly after winning re-election that year, Giuliani took his feminine side to a national audience. While hosting "Saturday Night Live," he appeared in one skit as a bosomy, gray-haired Italian grandmother in lipstick and a flowered housedress, with stockings pulled halfway up his calves.
Now that Giuliani is running for the Republican presidential nomination, experts and political observers are wondering whether those well-photographed and widely documented performances -- and others -- could damage his campaign. Some say conservatives won't get the joke and will be turned off by what they see as yet another peek at Giuliani's exotic, big-city liberal side.
Political observers say many voters associate a macho demeanor with Giuliani's post-Sept. 11 image as a strong national leader in a time of crisis -- an image that could lose its power if dressed in stockings and dancing the cancan.
Yes, there was another year when he wore fishnets and did high kicks with the Rockettes.
"People think of him as a leader and a tough guy, and he has this image as somebody who tamed the city of New York and made the trains run on time, and seeing him dressed up like a girl would run contrary to all of those things," said political science professor Neal Thigpen of Francis Marion University in South Carolina.
South Carolina has one of the nation's earliest presidential primaries next year, and as the first Southern contest, it could set the stage for the region.
With conservative voters largely dominating presidential primaries, some experts say the footage of Giuliani cavorting about in women's wear could significantly damage his chances there and throughout the South. The images are already showing up on the Internet, including a mock campaign commercial on the popular video-trading site YouTube.
"You get out in more sophisticated places of the country, where they know Giuliani and they like him and they know about some of his antics, it's not going to be any surprise, but down here where they've never seen that kind of thing, it could do him some damage," Thigpen said.
But others say the gender-bending gags won't matter.
In Nevada, another state with an early caucus, Republicans would be unfazed by the image of Giuliani in women's clothing, said Heidi Smith, chairwoman of the Republican Party in Washoe County.
Giuliani impressed Reno citizens in a campaign appearance there last month that included a trip to Costco during which he mingled with shoppers, posing for photographs and signing autographs.
"That meant more than seeing him in drag," Smith said. "If he wants to wear a dress, who cares?"
Giuliani's first drag appearance, in 1997, featured a breathy Marilyn Monroe impression that was followed by various other female alter-egos over the years, including one that shared a scene with Donald Trump, who groped Giuliani and buried his head between the mayoral breasts.
His other Inner Circle characters included a 1950s greaser on a motorcycle, the Lion King and the Beauty's beast.
His most famous appearance from 10 years ago is likely to be remembered this weekend when Mayor Michael Bloomberg gets into costume to dance and sing for the same charity event, as New York mayors have done for decades. David Dinkins once donned full cowboy regalia and entered the ballroom on a horse; Ed Koch wore a suit of glittering gold; and Bloomberg has ridden a mule and pretended to smoke pot.
In 1997, the New York media had fun for a few days with Giuliani's first cross-dressing experiment -- the Village Voice printed a favorable review by real drag queens -- but it didn't appear to hurt him politically.
A poll shortly afterward found his approval rating at an all-time high of 67 percent, and a majority of city voters said they enjoyed the gag. He won re-election later that year.
Perhaps New Yorkers, who are overwhelmingly Democrats by a margin of five to one, appreciated one particular line during the 1997 show, which was a spoof of the musical comedy "Victor/Victoria," in which a woman pretends to be a man pretending to be a woman.
"I already play a Republican playing a Democrat playing a Republican," Giuliani quipped.
For conservatives who already are leery of backing Giuliani because of his support for abortion rights and other positions on social issues, the feminine clothing may also remind them of his support of gays while mayor -- despite the fact that the majority of cross-dressers are not gay.
Still, a poison-pen mailer or e-mail could easily imply a connection, observers say.
"I'm imagining the negative ads -- they could use this as sort of an oblique reference to all of those positions," said Clemson University political scientist Dave Woodard.
Southern Baptist Convention official Richard Land said gay issues represent just one area of the problems religious conservatives have with Giuliani.
"There are so many dealbreakers for Giuliani, it's difficult to know where to start," he said.
Throughout his eight years in City Hall, Giuliani supported laws that protected gays against harassment, marched in gay pride parades, welcomed the Olympic-style Gay Games to New York City and, after his second marriage broke up, lived with two friends who happened to be a gay couple.
He does not support gay marriage, but he does not see the need to ban it with a constitutional amendment. And in a 1994 cover story with The Advocate, a national gay magazine, he condemned Pat Buchanan's speech at the Republican National Convention two years earlier during which the failed presidential candidate declared a "cultural war" against homosexuality, radical feminists, abortion rights supporters and other "liberals."
The speech, Giuliani said, "tried to narrow rather than to broaden the Republican Party. There is no reason why the party shouldn't appeal to gays and lesbians in the same way it does to all Americans."
Over the years, Giuliani's relationship with gays has not been exactly cozy -- he was often heckled while marching in the city's annual gay pride parade.
Asked this month about his theatrical past, Giuliani told Fox News that it shows voters another side of him.
"I think what they'll find out about me is I enjoy having fun. I mean, I really enjoy those Inner Circles. I made them fun, and I enjoyed them," he said. "And so you're going to get a couple of things people can interpret different ways, I guess."
Kinda makes me wonder what Rudy really DOES believe.
You keep referring to people as republicans here. Big mistake. This is a conservative forum not a republican one. Thought you knew that. Might be good for you to go to the home page and read the FR mission statement again to refresh your mind on this.
Every time you and your republican buddies dis so called “zealots” here on FR you might want to think about who you are talking about...
I’ve already stated that FR will probably become even more conservative than it already is, through attrition if nothing else. Besides continuing to champion the defense of America, FR just might become the “Conservative Conscience of the Republican Party,” ie, we may become a real thorn in the side of moderate/liberal Republicanism. Someone has to try defend the party from completely tossing out traditional American conservatism. Might as well be us.
How many times must I say FR is a conservative site? We do not support abortionism, homosexualism, feminisim, environmentalism, gun control, liberalism, socialism, etc, etc, etc. When I say I suspect we will become even more conservative than we already are, possibly via attrition if nothing else, what do you think I’m referring to? When FR starts pushing hard and I mean hard against abortion, gay marriage, homosexual education forced on our school children, pandering to illegal aliens, gun control, McCaine-Feingold type usurpation, global warming, etc, etc, even if supported or advanced by the GOP, then I fully suspect certain types of moderate/liberal Republican supporters are probably going to be a little uncomfortable here. We will be fighting for traditional American conservatism no matter who we have to fight against and I’m afraid that’s going to piss off some folks.
And I’ll borrow a slogan used by the NFRA that I realy like:
“We are the ‘Republican’ Wing of the Republcan Party!”
~Jim Robinson~
Now this is the republican party I belong to. If the republicans want to throw the conservatives out of the party, well, say hello to Hillary Rodman, the next POTUS!
“Kinda makes me wonder what Rudy really DOES believe.”
Who knows, but he did oppose the Bush tax cuts.
Giuliani Opposed Bush Tax Cut. “Although Mr. Giuliani is running as pro-gun control, pro-abortion-rights Republican who likes tax cuts, he did shy away yesterday from the large tax cut proposal of his political benefactor, George W. Bush, which has been criticized as too large and favorable toward the rich.” [New York Times, 2/04/00]
I have been staying away from FR due to the liberal posters on this site. If I wanted to read that stuff, I would just go to a liberal site. Since I did that, I have added nearly 2000 names to my FTM. That is way more interesting than the liberal junk posted on this site. It is amazing the people I have found who have the same ancestors as my families.
Ah, you’re Amish, that explains everything.
I've watched Oprah's show exactly one time. And one that one time was at the behest of my daughter, so that I could see someone she knew, whom I had not seen since they were teens.
It's really funny ( in ALL sense of that word ) that the very people who claim that other people talk badly about them, are the first ones out of the gate, to do that very thing.
BTW, elections are won or lost on the votes of moderates, Indies, and the uninvolved. Those people, whom you decry and don't think a candidate needs, are the ones who watch Oprah and Letterman and goodness only knows what other T.V. shows.
Well, that would certainly explain the genuflecting & Rudy worship of some of the more notorius 'moderates' on this site.
“Advancing a conservative agenda and trying to destroy the character of other conservative Republicans are two different things. Some here need to take a deep breath and read up on a few debating points that will help you get your message across in a civil manner. Name calling and casting dispersions on your opponents is a losing proposition and makes you look loutish and foolish to unsuspecting lurkers who come here to inform themselves on important issues of the day.”
In his time as mayor, he performed, IN COSTUME, at the INNER CIRCLE dinners, dressed as the beast, from BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, a Harley riding ( yes, he rode one onto the stage ), black leather wearing gang-banger, and as other male attired characters. But ONLY Rudy in female attire pictures get posted to FR and without attribution or explanation.
The explanations, posted by people here who know what those pictures are from, get ignored; so too do the posts regarding the history of such shows and benefits, which go back to colonial America.
Posters from all over this country have posted about how their husbands, sons, priests, and fathers have also dressed up as women for charity. The ONLY people here, who go on and on and on about this, are the people who are against Rudy and are trying to muddy the water. This started with the very first thread posted to FR, about Rudy talking about entering the GOP presidential primary, last year.
This isn't "a matter of play acting"; it is in the nature of dressing up to raise money for charities. Many mayors and governors and lawyers and priests and ministers and rabbis and high school football players do this every single year. This sort of thing is older than the formation United States of America; yes, it was done in many of the original 13 colonies.
What's sad, is that the Rudy Haters here use far lefty, LIBERAL papers' articles, stuff from extreme lefty blogs, and garbage from other lefty outposts with which to smear Rudy with.
His appearance on QUEER AS FOLK raised an additional $100,000 for the DISASTER RELIEF FUND, one month after 9/11.
The now over hyped filmed segment with Donald Trump was for a PRIVATE club's ROAST, which was also for charity.
The many decades old, annual, INNER CIRCLE DINNER raises money for 20, TWENTY different charities and which every single previous mayor ( not to mention other N.Y. politicians and newsies and lawyers ) have participated in since it began.
When Rudy did the first "drag" performance, he was not comfortable with it at all, but was a very good sport about it.
The so called cross dressing, that you claim was a "CHORUS GIRL", was actually as a ROCKETTE and was done WITH the Radiocity Rockettes, during CHRISTMAS TIME......again, for charity purposes.
He and Julie Andrews, who was dressed for the INNER CIRCLE DINNER in her Victor/Victoria costume, were doing a skit.
Don't you people ever get tired of lying?
Chicago's white shoe firms, hand in hand with local politicos, puts on a full blown stage extravaganza, every year, which is similar to N.Y.C.'s INNER CIRCLE DINNER.
Just about every single president, much of their cabinets, and friends have belonged to the Bohemian Grove. It's an all men men's club, of movers and shakers. They put on HAIRY LEG SHOWS for fun, for themselves. So, FYI...........most politicians you've ever heard of and probably those you've voted for, have worn crazy, silly, and yes, "DRAG" costumes and NOT just for a charitable event.
History is just repeating itself here.
Spot on!
Nope. A lot more than that.
He appeared on THAT show? That's pretty much gay porn. This is even worse than I thought...
Very well - this is truly bizarre behavior. Yes, it does bother me as he is running for President. This goes far beyond the realm of a "good joke."
Sure. Amish with a computer in my home. Uh-huh. I do encounter them everyday, and know a few from my business. You couldn't have better neighbors. They keep to themselves, take good care of their property, discipline their children, and in my view live more authentically Christian lives than the rest of us.
They are starting to get political. A group of them came out and met GWB in 2004, and he ended up getting quite a few votes from that community. A local Amish expert estimates that maybe 10 percent of them vote, but he couldn't imagine a single Amish vote going to John Jerry or any pro-life candidate.
Their biggest concern is that they see a continuing moral decline in American society, and fear it will spillover into their way of life. Also, while they are pacifists they see the War on Terror as a religious war and consider Islam to be the devil's religion.
I do not disagree with them on these things. The Amish don't need politics or laws to solve their problems, and their society is proof that cultural constraints are far more powerful than legal ones.
Whew! I'm glad you don't hate him, AC. Can you imagine the awful things you would be posting about Rudy if you indeed truly hated him? LOL!!!
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