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To: presidio9
"The United States today uses the highest principles that we're all familiar with — democracy, justice, rights and responsibility — but that's not what the country was in 1857," Payton said.

"It's important for us to appreciate what we were in 1857 to better understand what we are today," he added.

The slavery situation in 1857 was wrong. But in terms of our country being a republic (not a democracy), justice, rights, and responsibility -- I would say the this country was doing more right in 1857 than we are today.

Oh, and I don't think Dred Scott was the "moral low point" of the Supreme Court. That, clearly, was Roe v Wade.

3 posted on 04/09/2007 7:15:38 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: ClearCase_guy; presidio9
Oh, and I don't think Dred Scott was the "moral low point" of the Supreme Court. That, clearly, was Roe v Wade.

I would say that the "big 3" moral low points for SCOTUS have been Dred Scott, Plessy v. Ferguson and Roe v. Wade. However, the true culprit has always been and always will be Marbury v. Madison, because this is the vehicle that the Supreme Court used to usurp powers that it is clearly not given in the Constitution and from this has come their unconstitutional authority to adjudicate new law.

5 posted on 04/09/2007 7:19:33 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: ClearCase_guy
The slavery situation in 1857 was wrong.

Why? It was legal. In 1857 and for years and years before, and years afterwards.

22 posted on 04/09/2007 8:10:11 AM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: ClearCase_guy
The slavery situation in 1857 was wrong. But in terms of our country being a republic (not a democracy), justice, rights, and responsibility -- I would say the this country was doing more right in 1857 than we are today. Are you serious? I'm a black guy from Southern Louisiana and if I lived back in 1857 there's a 99% chance I would have been a slave. The United States was neither a republic or democracy before the Civil War, I would have NO rights back then and zero say in how I was represented. No I don't like my increase in rights coupled with creeping socialism but the US today is the most free it's ever been.
32 posted on 04/09/2007 10:45:02 AM PDT by Raymann (Atheists aren't your enemy, commies are.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Oh, and I don't think Dred Scott was the "moral low point" of the Supreme Court. That, clearly, was Roe v Wade.

and Kelo and CFR...

40 posted on 04/09/2007 11:14:30 AM PDT by Ignatz (Did you know that before the internal combustion engine, there was no weather at all?)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Absolutely. Each justice that voted yes on Roe should rend their robes in horror and repentance. Then maybe, just maybe, God’s wrath will lessen a bit. Otherwise, you think our society is immoral now? You have seen nothing. The Holy Spirit withdraws from the citizenship, and the wrath of God is seen throughout what is called NATURE. I was wondering why God had to use Moses to get the Israelites out of Egypt. Why did He just show up as a cloud and as fire? Why does God use earthquakes, drought, famine, war, plagues, disease? Where are our bees, why is the sun so hot? God created this world, like the vine over Jonah’s head when he was sent to Ninevah. What happened to the vine?


74 posted on 04/09/2007 3:25:32 PM PDT by huldah1776 (Worthy is the Lamb.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
The slavery situation in 1857 was wrong. But in terms of our country being a republic (not a democracy), justice, rights, and responsibility -- I would say the this country was doing more right in 1857 than we are today.

"A Republic, not an Empire" is a nice slogan, but in terms of justice and rights are we really worse off?

In 19th century South Carolina over half the population was enslaved, in some counties far over half the population. Wealthy planter families split up offices among themselves. For that matter, they split up families at their own whim. The state didn't even count the votes for presidential electors, for fear that the voters might think differently from the state establishment.

South Carolina wasn't a democracy in those days. It was a "republic" of sorts, like ancient Rome or Renaissance Venice. But it wasn't freer than it is today.

There's a lot to criticize in democracy, particularly if a democracy is a society where there are no limits on the power of the majority. But democracy isn't the only enemy of freedom, and republics don't always provide guarantees of rights to people.

123 posted on 04/10/2007 2:08:29 PM PDT by x
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To: ClearCase_guy
Oh, and I don't think Dred Scott was the "moral low point" of the Supreme Court. That, clearly, was Roe v Wade.

It amazes me how many of the same liberals who express hollow outrage over what Dred Scott did 150 years ago think Roe v. Wade is a positive good for society.

127 posted on 04/10/2007 8:09:48 PM PDT by lqclamar ("That's it, Seth, you can't blame them. It's want of education. That's all it is.")
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