The Mormon Advantage

Townhall.com ^ | 4/5/2007 | Maggie Gallagher

[Utah Girl]

Mitt Romney is riding high this week after his victory in "the first primary," which consists of raising cold, hard cash to compete: more than $20 million in the first quarter, $5 million more than his closest contender, Rudy "Lay off my wife!" Giuliani. John McCain came in a lackluster third with $12.5 million.

Romney's campaign benefited from two distinct donor networks, according to media accounts: Wall Street and Mormons. GOP front-runner Rudy, struggling with one of those weird media freak shows erupting around his wife, Judith (her alleged participation in future Cabinet meetings and former puppy killings), must be a little envious on both counts.

Why is it that all the Dem candidates are still married to their first spouse, while among the current crop of leading GOP contenders, the only guy with just one wife is the Mormon?

Truth is, I don't think this is just an accident. There's something about Mormons the rest of us ought to pay attention to: Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do much better than almost any other faith group at sustaining a marriage culture -- and they do this while participating fully and successfully in modern life. Utah is above the national average in both household income and the proportion of adults who are college graduates.

[Pan_Yan]

In true Clinton style I added the "almost" in there to give myself an out.

I can understand why when someone's religion and politics are being attacked simultaneously that it's hard to defend one and not the other. That's most likely the reason that his support among Mormons here seems so unified.

Tommy Thompson is also running for President but has almost no support here on FR. Yet from what I've read his record as a governor is much more conservative than Romney's. I know there are many other factors - charisma, name recognition, and money, money, money. The Olympics story is great. I remember seeing Romney on the news personally directing traffic to events.

But if there is any place where true core conservative, constructionist principles were to be the deciding factor among candidates I would think this is it.

For the record, I haven't even come close to picking a candidate to back, and Thompson was only an example.

[Liberty Rattler]

I guess I better reveal myself.

I am an exmormon.

Not only that but I am from a family of of Mormons that goes back to 1840. Some of my family came to Salt Lake with the first wagon train.

I do not believe in their mythology.

That being said, pbear, if you think you can “prove” another Christian belief system, any better than the Mormons, you should take them on.

So far as I can see there’s not a lot of “proof” to be had.

I don’t have time here to address all aspects of theology. It’s a study that many have spent lives trying to define, and disagreements go on.

All that being said, I won’t vote for Romney in the primaries, but I’d be surprised if almost all Mormons did not.

Also folks ought to look into Mormon history and they would see the link between the early Mormons persecution and how that related to their antislavery leanings which led to their expulsion form Missouri and their continued Republican loyalty to this day. Oh, and even though I'll not vote for Romney in the primaries, I would surely vote for him in the general election, rather than let the 'Rats win. And when all was said and done we could do worse than a Mormon President.

[Aluwid]

“But why does there seem to be almost monolithic support of Romney among the Mormon community on FR?”

I can’t speak for all those Mormons who post on FR and support Romney but I can provide my guess. If you believe Romney about his conversion from moderate to conservative then he becomes the most electable conservative candidate. I suspect that our shared faith makes us more likely to believe that his conservative views are genuine. In other words, Mormons are more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Boiler Plate]

at I would dread would be how DC would become packed with Mormon appointees and staff, and the LDS church,

Er, you might be a little late on that one. Just take the Outer Loop from Georgia Ave to Connecticut Ave, then head on over to Marriott HQ in Bethesda.

[MHGinTN]

As a non-Mormon, allow me to come to Romney's defense on pro-life.

Thirty plus years of dehumanizing the alive unborn following the Roe ruling and we have a nation which is not well versed in pro-life issues. Add to that the pernicious media effort to liberalized America and it isn't difficult see why too many Christians do not come out full square in favor of preserving the alive unborn children slaughtered in abortions. We've been programmed to believe the alive unborn are not yet humans!

Mitt Romney has 'evolved' in his understanding of the life of the unborn. A short few years ago, he opposed the Mass. efforts to taxpayer fund embryonic stem cell research and cloning of humans for exploitation. He has given his reason as connected with an awakening regarding how terrible has been the effect of the Roe ruling and subsequent dehumanization of the alive unborn.

I spend no small effort trying to awaken folks' consience to the reality of the alive unborn. That Romney appears to have undergone just such an awakening is most encouraging to me.

One unmeasureable quality in a leader is the application of his moral principles (if we didn't learn that with the degenerate clintons, we need re-edumacation). I can honestly assert that I don't see but two men in the entire two-party field who appear to have fundamental values which would affect their decision making: Hunter and Romney. A Romney/Hunter ticket would win hands down if the American people are awakened to the necessity of moral men to run this nation. Unfortunately, I am not hopeful that Americans will awaken in time to avoid the demise of the Republic when we can't even see clearly the treachery of democrats and the Pelosi in her usurpation of the executive branch.

[MHGinTN]

Newbie, you need to be around a bit longer before trying to throw your dissonance weight around.

[Clintonfatigued]

“You can bet the Rodham-rodent goon squad will smear the Mormon beliefs to keep Mitt from winning. Will we conservatives allow that to happen?”

Not with the Hildebeast running. She scares conservarives.

[Artemis Webb]

Against my better judgement I'm going to respond to your claims of LDS doctrine one by one:

"Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163)

I did a search of that phrase. It was quoted many times. While I didn't see it from any official Mormon site I did see it from;
christian apologetics & research ministry (whatever the hell that is)
RUSSPICKET.COM (if Russ Picket says it, it MUST be true!)
members.tripod.com/ApocryphalText/Mormonism.htm (your own website for $1 a month)
theapologiaproject.org
and
comicscommunity.com

I did find this from Yahoo Answers from a Mormon however, "God had a plan already. Satan proposed an alternate plan in which their would be no free will (agency) and Satan wanted all of the Glory, but Jesus said he would do what the Father wanted, giving the Glory to the Father.

The argument that Jesus' brother is Satan is used a lot by people trying to defame Mormons. We believe all people are God's children, including you. This also makes you Jesus' brother, as well as Satan's brother."

This sounds like what almost every faith believes(including yours I would bet), that God created everything. However in context of your charges it basically it sounds to me like you are regurgitating anti-Mormon bias as "facts".

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see."
"God the Father had a Father..."

Yup...Joseph Smith said that in 1844. Again my only source though was anti-Mormon sites. Keep in mind that Martin Luther had a lot of funny ideas too. However unless you are Roman Catholic then it is fair to paint you totally with the brush of Martin Luther if you are going to paint the Mormons with the brush of Joseph Smith.

"God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)"
"The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129)"

"We [the First Presidency of the Church] decided that Bruce R. McConkie’s book, ‘Mormon Doctrine’ recently published by Bookcraft Company, must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation.--LDS President David O McKay January 8, 1960

"No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant” (Journal of Discourses 5:291)"
Well...this was said by the world famous Erastus Snow in 1857.
However you said earlier regarding this, "I have had more than one Mormon wife cry on my shoulder because they lived with the fear that on that day when their Mormon husband is made God over his own planet - that he might not ask him to join her". Now frankly I'm having a hard time buying that. The BS meter went off in my head when I read it and I'm still not buying it. (don't send me a "are you calling me a liar" reply because you already know the answer.)

Thanks for your time. I cannot believe I just spent this much of what could have been quality time answering your bigoted charges.

[Radix]

"So, did I leave anyone out?"

 

You left yourself out!

 

There is not much difference between you and the zany professor who spewed all that stuff out for you in some silly religion elective class, and the same folks whom you criticize here.

I'll concede that Joseph Smith was a nut job who likely had a strong personality in that he influenced so many.

I'll concede that Mormonism is a ridiculous religion that no serious thinking person should ever espouse.

I'll concede that catholicism is a ridiculous religion that no serious thinking person should ever espouse.

I'll concede that baseball is a ridiculous sport, and that anyone who would actually pay money to watch it played is an imbecile.

I'll concede that golf is a ridiculous sport,a complete waste of time, and very expensive.

I'll concede a whole lot of things if you'll concede that you really do not know very much about what you are posting about.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

I quoted one of your leaders directly - not myself. Apparently they obviously know little... :-)

[Artemis Webb]

“when you pose researched facts to a Mormon, the first thing they will do is label you anti-mormon. They will never admit something that their leaders did was wrong, or admit that any doctrinal teaching is wrong. They are trained to not question anything, or they may be called Apostate.”

I’m a Catholic.

[Pan_Yan]

I can understand and respect that reasoning.

That's where the vetting process among hard core voters like those here becomes so important.

Does he have a track record as Governor that supports this conversion to conservatism? That should matter more than anything else in a place like this. I don't know the answer.

Even if he does have a conservative record to back his conversion, does that put him ahead of candidates who have a much longer record of sticking to their principles?

Then the argument that has produced some of the best political debates on FR begins. Do you vote based on electability, an almost impossible to judge yet highly coveted trait, or vote based on conservative principles alone? We'd all like to find Ronaldus Reaganus reincarnated, but it doesn't happen ever election cycle.

I think we'd all love to hash out our doubts here and vote with confidence in November of 2008. Unfortunately, I feel that very few true conservatives have been able to do that in 23 years. In my opinion, the less Freepers that give the benefit of the doubt to any candidate the better at this stage. No one is voting tomorrow.

I will give Duncan Hunter credit for having his son answer questions directly on FR. It's a gutsy move for a smaller campaign walking a tightrope. I'll bet if he shows up in more polls the other campaign from both sides (and their media partners) will kill FR's bandwidth researching and scrutinizing his every response.

[jatopilot99]

And what I said still is true.

[Radix]

"I was always stunned by the amount of “documentation” one could find of beliefs the Witness’s simply did not have."

Congrats to you for making the break.

If you ever want to know just what the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society really believes that is considered to be outrageous, then please hail me for info.

I'll get around to responding eventually.

That goes for pretty much any other "cult" as well.

I did a lot of homework on these things, a good while ago.

I know a lot, but I never get much of an audience anywhere, and so that works out just fine for me.

I'll never be able to say "I told you so" and you'll never have to claim the 5TH!

[Logophile]

Mormonism, by the account of the many ex-Mormons I’ve consulted over the past two and a half decades, is a Christian cult.

Of course it is a Christian cult. We "Mormons" are Christians, and we adhere to a "system of religious beliefs and rituals" (which of course is the primary definition of cult.) Thus Mormonism is a "cult" in the same sense that Catholicism is a "cult," the many flavors of Protestantism are "cults," and so on.

The happy family unit is often a facade. . . .

Often? How often? Are apparently happy Mormon families more likely to be putting up a facade to conceal unhappy marriages than are other Christians?

I have had more than one Mormon wife cry on my shoulder because they lived with the fear that on that day when their Mormon husband is made God over his own planet - that he might not ask him to join her. So, she does his every bidding in order to keep Mr. Future-God pacified.

You being more than just a little melodramatic. What you have described is not Mormonism. I have never heard such a doctrine expressed in the LDS Church. Indeed, "neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:11).

Nor do I know any Mormon wife who does her husband's every bidding. (The idea is absurd.) Most of the Mormon women I know are strong and independent, who view themselves as equal partners with their husbands.

In addition, the happy image is necessary in order to progress within the church structure. It’s not unlike running for president.

What do you mean "progress within the church structure"? The Church of Jesus Christ is not Amway. We serve in the Church how and where we are called; we do not aspire to careers in the Church structure.

Don’t like what I’ve laid out here? Well, guess what. Joseph Smith said every other church, except the LDS, is an abomination before God. . . .

Actually, Joseph Smith did not say that exactly. God told him that the man-made creeds were an abomination.

[Reaganesque]

Within the Mormon community, Mitt is very well know because of what he did in the Winter Olympics and the fact that he has been successful politically. Everything and anything that he has done since then has been big news in Utah. Also, he is related (I'm not sure just how...) to Marion G. Romney, a former General Authority within the church so, his family is quite well known as well.

Mormons are a very close knit bunch. For example, when I have moved into a new ward (congregation), it's like I already have friends and/or family there. Most Mormons feel that way about each other and this breeds a strong loyalty to our own. So, for many, Mitt's like family.

Personally speaking, I am loyal to Mitt because I am LDS and I grew up in MA. So, I have known him and his family for most of my life. I worked on his campaign in '94 as a volunteer and briefly as a staffer. He is someone I have looked up to for a very long time both personally and in my business conduct. He is one of the most intelligent, honest, decent and compassionate people I have ever known. I truly believe he would make an excellent President of the United States.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

The pro-gay Mitt thing is not a value I’d want.

[Pan_Yan]

I would like to see another pro-life President, but would settle for one that at least admits that Roe v. Wade is bad law. When it comes to national elections let's first get the federal government out of the abortion business, and move the argument down to a more local level where it belongs. I believe that righting the balance of power among the three branches will put the abortion debate back in the hands of the voters. Then your argument is with your neighbor, not unelected judges over whom you hold no sway.

Remember, there is a man in the White House now who is pro-life, and whom I believe to be a moral man guided by Christian principles. I don't think W. is a phony.

Yet his veto pen is still unwrapped, congressional spending is out of control, and our path towards socialism remains unchecked.

Hopefully, we can find a candidate whose conservatism extends to all areas, not just one. Single issue voters are the mainstay of the Democratic party. I would hate to see both parties fall into that trap.

[Choose Ye This Day]

Mormonism...is a Christian cult.

Well, thanks for at least acknowledging that Mormons are Christians. Mighty big of ya. And "cult," well, I'd agree with that if we're strictly using the dictionary definition:

1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP

2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

Just as the Baptists are a Christian cult, the Methodists are a Christian cult, etc. Heck, in Latin America, the Catholic Church is known as the Culto Católico.

I've spent much more time talking with Mormon families than you have, and I've never seen anything like what you're describing.

[sevenbak]

he was done translating the Ancient Greek (a language with which he was not acquainted).

Uh, what exactly have you been reading? The people of the Book of Mormon knew Hebrew and Egyptian, not Greek.

1 Ne. 1: 2

2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.

The rest of your post is just as inacurate.