3/11: Wasn't it ETA?

Libertad Digital ^ | 1 April 2007 | Libertad Digital (transl. J Aguilar)

[J Aguilar]

New analyses carried out on the rests found on the trains by order of Judge Gómez-Bermúdez show that in the Madrid massacre - "it was not used dynamite Goma-2 ECO, but Titadyne or any other dynamite alike. In the fire extinguisher powder sample found in one of the explosion scenes has appeared nitro glycerine, nitro glycol, dinitro toluene and ammonium nitrate. Neither nitro glycerine nor dinitro toluene are components of the Goma-2 ECO that the Official Version says it was employed. However, those four components belong to some types of Titadyne and other kinds of dynamite."

As the readers of FreeRepublic may already know, surprisingly, proper analyses of the samples taken from the sites of the explosions have not been carried out during the three years that lasted the investigations on the case.

Instead of this, Spanish security forces and the MSM followed clues left outside the trains; clues that have turned in some cases, after an independent investigation, in alleged pieces of fabricated evidence, such as the backpack number 13. (Check also the alleged tasks of some of its guards).

According to Libertad Digital - "the tests have been repeated four times, with four different equipments (two gas chromatographers and two solid ones) and in the four occasions the result was the same. During the tests, it has been compared the chromatogram from the El Pozo sample (the graphic provided by the equipment for that sample) with a chromatogram corresponding to a Titadyne sample, and the match is perfect."

[…]

"The fire extinguisher powder sample from El Pozo was the only one that, according to its dusty nature, was not cleaned with water and ketone in the TEDAX [Explosive Deactivation Unit] laboratory, which could have preserved the original components of the explosive that would have impregnated the extinguisher powder thrown over the explosion scene."

"We must remember that the whole Official Version of the attacks is based on that on 3/11 Goma-2 ECO dynamite has been used, because this kind of dynamite was the one that appeared in the backpack of Vallecas, in the Kangoo van found in Alcalá on the morning of 3/11, and the failed attack against the AVE [high speed train] tracks on April 2nd 2004. It is precisely in El Pozo station from where it allegedly would come, according to the Official Version, the famous backpack of Vallecas [the number 13], capital evidence against the 29 indicted ones today in the dock."

"This news would trigger a major turn in the development of the trial of the biggest terrorist massacre in the history of Europe, since it would corroborate the multiple suspicions of forgery today linked with the evidence presented to endorse the official version of the attacks" - says Libertad Digital.

In addition, the detection of the components of Titadyne in the explosion scenes of an attack that has no Islamist characteristics (lack of suicide bombers and internal political ends among others) casts a long shadow over the legitimacy of Zapatero’s government, and prompts questions about the real role of the MSM in modern societies, and the actual tasks of people like Paul Haven, Charles Powell and Jean-Charles Brisard.

More 3/11 here:
Search @ Freerep
A summary of news @ Fondodocumental

More data on 3/11 in Spanish here:
Luis del Pino's blog
Kickjor's blog

The latest Luis del Pino TV program on the trial here @ Google Video.

[J Aguilar]

Well, an explosive whose components match ETA's Titadyne has been found in one of the explosion scenes in El Pozo's train. That is science.

I add two links, so you are free to check it by yourselves:

Goma-2 ECO Data sheet

Titadyn Data sheet [.DOC]

Thanks to City FM for posting this technical information.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

You obviously are bound to be more of an expert on Spanish incidents, but personal opinion is that the attacks on March 11 were probably by islamofascists.

For one, it was another eleventh day of the month, similar to September 11. Even bigger, is that ETA in recent times, has not been particularly violent. They've destroyed a lot of property, but they often send a message to officials or the police that they've set a bomb--so that the building or other property can be evacuated.

Although there was one incident recently in which at least two people died, it was because those two had not gotten notice of the bombs, because they were in their vehicles. The rest of the building evacuated.

There wasn't such a warning for that Madrid train bombings on March 11.

[J Aguilar]

Jedi Master Pikachu,

ETA is a terrorist group, therefore, they have no rules to follow, and ETA does what it is necessary to win, as 3/11 proves.

There are no evidence of Islamic involvement in 3/11: The attack had clear internal political ends and no suicide bomber was found in the trains.

For one, it was another eleventh day of the month, similar to September 11.

What is the problem with 11? 9/11 is an important date for Muslims because of Palestine, 3/11 not. It wasn't the 11, it wasn't the 3, 3 days before Spanish National Elections.

Even bigger, is that ETA in recent times, has not been particularly violent.

Of course, because Zapatero's government is surrendering to its demands.

Although there was one incident recently in which at least two people died, it was because those two had not gotten notice of the bombs, because they were in their vehicles. The rest of the building evacuated.

Of course, you park a van with one ton of explosives in a building and you expect that no one is hurt. With all respect, Jedi Master Pikachy, the argument is sickening. Check that it might be applied to Osama Bin Laden and his attack on WTC: it was too early, the buildings were not completely filled.

There wasn't such a warning for that Madrid train bombings on March 11.

Well, on March 10th ETA announced a boycott against Spain's National Railways, therefore, none of its followers took such a train on 3/11. Moreover, the rumours about an attack appeard three weeks before, as you can check here:

The Socialist Party Keeps a Super Missile against the Rajoy Campaign and PP

Translation follows:

DEEP THROAT

THE PSOE KEEPS A SUPER MISSIL AGAINST RAJOY'S CAMPAIGN AND THE PP

Elsemanaldigital.com
Yesterday Saturday it seemed some leaders of the PSOE smiled again, those who were in the electoral campaign who these days were really sad.

February 22, 2004
Watch out, the match is far from over!, warned yesterday from the headquarters of the Socialist campaign in Gobelas, street -where the PSOE keeps his Electoral Strategy Comitee-. "In Genova [Genova Street, PP headquarters] assume the campaign is over and that the PSOE is finished for [trying to win] the March 14th elections, but this has just begun", insist Socialist sources with whom yesterday talked "Deep Throat". "The Carod-Rovira issue [talks with ETA in France] and ETA truce in Catalonia, that so much thinks the PP has helped them, could in the end turn against them".

Yesterday Saturday it seemed the smile went back to the faces of some of the PSOE leaders that are involved in the campaign, those who these days were really sad, downcast and staggering along. "We have received good news from Gobelas, but now we cannot say anything more, the issue Carod-ETA can turn in a curious [odd] way", confessed almost whispering our sources.

Well, the joy that just some of the Socialist leaders showed during the morning -those who are in the campaign- contagiated rapidly hours later to many more. The "Something is going to happen" rumour spread during the Saturday evening in Santiago de Compostela to all the Socialist family that follows Zapatero in his electoral tour. People chatted on the same idea: "There is something about contacts between ETA and PP leaders and Pepiño (Blanco) and Alfredo (Pérez Rubalcaba) are analyzing the best moment to make it public". "Until the referee whistels, the match is going" - They said.
------------------------------

Jedi Master Pikachu, we live in a free world, and you may believe what you want, but those are the facts.

[iopscusa]

Thanks, J Aguilar for posting about 3/11. You're the source for anyone looking for a true investigation of 3/11...it is incredible that the US MSM has black-listed any info on this...IMO, there is a lot of damage to come to the European Left and their buddies in the US are running scared and blocking any news.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

Don't get into such a huffy (conniption).

As the comment stated, ETA does destroy things--but they also tend to send warnings.

The hijackers on September 11, the Bali bombers, the London bombers, and the Madrid train bombers, sent no warning that they were going to bomb a target.

This isn't typing that ETA isn't bad--which is apparently what you think it is.

It is merely suggesting the opinion that the Madrid bombings did not fit ETA's profile, and did fit the profile of islamofascists.

You, of course, do not have to agree--which you obviously don't.

[AntiFed]

"ETA is a terrorist group, therefore, they have no rules to follow, and ETA does what it is necessary to win, as 3/11 proves. "

I won't dispute the label, but honestly what should we expect from them? Do you think a people could/would fight off invasion by everyone from the Romans to Muslims over thousands of years just to surrender to Madrid and the EU? The absurdity of that strikes me as inconcievable, unless the spirit of freedom is truly dead in Iberia.

Is there a better way for them to be free? The only army occupying their land is beurocrats and the Spanish equivalent of carpet-baggers, so you can't exactly expect them to engage in a military vs. military battle.

So what options do the Basques have outside of political surrender and anti-government violence? I'd love to hear a third option because I think the current set of choices are equally unreasonable.

[Captain Rhino]

I agree with you. You can also add the below to the list of reasons for continuing to suspect the real attackers were Islamofascists:

-Simultaneous attacks in multiple locations,

-Intent to create maximum death, injury, and panic by attacking the public transportation system during weekday rush hours, and

-The indiscriminate nature of the attack.

These, along with the points you made, point to al Qaeda, not an ETA, as the attackers.

However, for the sake of argument, let us give the article prima fascia credibility. If two different types of explosives were present, what is really being alleged?

That an unidentified group used ETA explosives to attack the trains but left behind backpacks filled with GOMA-2 ECO explosives (along with jihadi CDs and other literature).

For what purpose?

Well, the obvious one is to have the unexploded backpacks provide "evidence" to cast the blame on Islamofascist terrorists, groups known to use the GOMA-2 ECO explosive.

But isn't that a particularly clumsy operational approach for the conspirators? (Conspirators which, J Aguilar in a subsequent posting to this thread, appear to be the PSOE, PP Spanish political parties and ETA Basque terrorist group) After all, the amount of explosives involved in the attacks was not particularly large. If you can obtain enough GOMA-2 ECO explosive to fill two back packs, you can obtain enough to fill them all.

Why introduce the second explosive, one associated with ETA? Was ETA compelled to use the other due to a shortage? Is the ETA so logistically incompetent that it would commit to executing this conspiracy and then not be able to obtain enough GOMA-2 ECO explosive to fill all the backpacks? Is it being alleged that Spanish police forensics is so incompetent that it wouldn't look at explosives residue on trains until 3 years after the fact?

Perhaps.

But it is also just as likely that the "smoking gun" pointing at ETA (in this case, the uncontaminated fire extinguisher) is the fake piece of evidence. Consider its provenance. It languishes ignored and untested until the eve of the trial and then suddenly it is "discovered" to have traces of the ETA explosives on it. It could have easily been removed, contaminated, replaced, then "discovered" and tested.

Who benefits from this new "evidence?"

ESOE? No.

PP? No.

ETA? No.

The Guardia Nacional? No.

Only poor, mistreated, and now, if we accept the evidence, the apparently falsely accused Islamic terror suspects now benefit.

No, that dog doesn't hunt. There are simply too many elements of the 3/11 attack that fit the classic al Qaeda attack pattern and don't fit ETA's current operational profile - including the use of explosives.

To allege that ESOE and PP would deliberately sponsor the killing of nearly 200 persons and the maiming of hundreds more to win the 2004 general election is breathtaking. And it is hard to imagine someone having knowledge of such a conspiracy not coming forward out of a sense of conscious during the following three years.

Now a possible variation on this conspiracy theory might be that ESOE and PP only wanted ETA to do property damage and that actual operatives exceeded their orders. But that theory doesn't work either because of the multiple, simultaneous, and maximum casualty nature of the attacks. These attacks were carefully planned and prepared from the beginning by a group that knew exactly what the effects were going to be. It is unlikely that operatives of an organization committed (at least at present) to NOT producing casualties would suddenly become confused over what was intended.

Or are the conspiracy's paths now considered to be ESOE/PP to ETA to al Qaeda; with the sponsors knowing that the executing party would go for maximum blood? If so, that's a conspiracy of utter evil.

An easier argument to make - if you still want to consider the explosives evidence as valid - is that the local Islamofacist terrorist operatives established connections somehow with the ETA and obtained explosives from them to fill a gap in their supplies. Use of ETA explosives as an attempt to throw suspicion off of themselves is unlikely since al Qaeda wanted to (and subsequently did) take credit for the attack as punishment to Spain for supporting the GWOT and as a warning to Europe to elect governments more sympathetic to Islamic causes. Something Spain subsequently did.

[J Aguilar]

iopscusa, all of you are welcome. I think the Anglosphere should, at least, have access to an alternative version about what happened on 3/11. I thank also FreeRepublic.com for giving me such opportunity.

Jedi Master Pikachu,

ETA sent no warning when its men targeted Aznar, then opposition leader, in 1995.(That's Madrid, not Baghdad)

ETA sent no warning when a car bomb killed five navy workers in Vallecas

ETA sent no warning when -Basque- journalist Lopez de Lacalle was gunned down near his home in the Basque Country on May 7th, 2000.

ETA sent not warning either when in 1991 targeted the wifes and children of Civil Guards, in its attack against their headquarters in Vic.

Jedi Master Pikachu, ETA follows no rules and does what it is necessary to win.

In the Madrid train bombings, there were several warnings that something was going to happen, unlike 9/11; among others, a boycott by ETA against Spanish National Railways. You are talking about the Madrid train bombers, I don't know who they are. If it was ETA, then they sent a warning, directed to their followers, but a warning.

This isn't typing that ETA isn't bad--which is apparently what you think it is.

No, you are telling ETA may follow rules, which is false.

It is merely suggesting the opinion that the Madrid bombings did not fit ETA's profile, and did fit the profile of islamofascists.

You, of course, do not have to agree--which you obviously don't.

Titadyne was used by ETA, 3/11 fits into ETA profile. On Christmas Eve 2003 a similar attack was inteded against Chamartin Station by ETA, with bombs disguised as luggage in an Intercity train coming from the Basque Country, 3/11 fits into ETA profile; 3/11 had political ends, it fits into ETA profile...

BTW, does 3/11 fit into an Islamic attack? Luis del Pino wrote almost two years ago an article on it, whose translation is here. It is a bit outdated, but worth reading it.

It is not my fault that the international public opinion has been deceived with biased data, or simply hidding important information. I am trying to correct that. I can tell you that performing an objective study on the 3/11 attack, no Islamic signs are found, I am afraid Islamism was added by security services and the media.

[J Aguilar]

I won't dispute the label, but honestly what should we expect from them? Do you think a people could/would fight off invasion by everyone from the Romans to Muslims over thousands of years just to surrender to Madrid and the EU? The absurdity of that strikes me as inconcievable, unless the spirit of freedom is truly dead in Iberia.

300,000 people has fled from such spirit of freedom in the last decade from the Basque country. Moreover, it seems the way Basque Nationalist understand freedom has also reached the US.

[J Aguilar]

Captain Rhino,

Simultaneous attacks in multiple locations,

No suicides -> use of timers

Intent to create maximum death, injury, and panic by attacking the public transportation system during weekday rush hours, and

simply not true -> in Madrid just four consecutive trains in the same commuter line were attacked. Many Madrileans took metropolitan trains and did not notice about the attack (that happened at 7:35 AM) until they reached their work posts at 9 AM.

The indiscriminate nature of the attack.

simply not true -> the attack was carefully targeted against blue collar workers and students of the suburbs of Madrid. Madrid financial center was kept unharmed.

These, along with the points you made, point to al Qaeda, not an ETA, as the attackers.

Ho ho ho ho ho Al Qaeda! No suicide bombers, but it was Al Qaeda!

But isn't that a particularly clumsy operational approach for the conspirators? (Conspirators which, J Aguilar in a subsequent posting to this thread, appear to be the PSOE, PP Spanish political parties and ETA Basque terrorist group) After all, the amount of explosives involved in the attacks was not particularly large. If you can obtain enough GOMA-2 ECO explosive to fill two back packs, you can obtain enough to fill them all.

Captain Rhino, check that the people that left the decoys might not have been the same that put the bombs that actually exploded in the trains. We are already sure that there were at least two uncoordinated operations: the attack itself and another one to cover it up. Moreover, Spanish police has no direct access to Titadyne, but it had to Goma-2 ECO, as I published last November here, at FreeRepublic.

But it is also just as likely that the "smoking gun" pointing at ETA (in this case, the uncontaminated fire extinguisher) is the fake piece of evidence. Consider its provenance. It languishes ignored and untested until the eve of the trial and then suddenly it is "discovered" to have traces of the ETA explosives on it. It could have easily been removed, contaminated, replaced, then "discovered" and tested.

Well, Captain Rhino, welcome to your own private conspiracy theory, as we have been told: prove it (and WE HAVE PROVEN IT!!!). The fire extinguisher powder was picked up by policemen on the trains and was kept under surveillance. It was not analyzed despite the protests of the defence attorneys during three years. If something was made wrong, told us. I don't mind to ask to jail police officers.

Who benefits from this new "evidence?"

ESOE? No. [It is PSOE]

PP? No.

ETA? No.

The Guardia Nacional? No. [It is the Guardia Civil and the Policia Nacional]

You know who benefits from it, Captain Rhino?

WE THE PEOPLE

simply the average Spanish citizen, as the ones that died on 3/11.

Only poor, mistreated, and now, if we accept the evidence, the apparently falsely accused Islamic terror suspects now benefit.

I thought most of them blew up in Leganes!

No, that dog doesn't hunt. There are simply too many elements of the 3/11 attack that fit the classic al Qaeda attack pattern and don't fit ETA's current operational profile - including the use of explosives.

About Al Qaeda read Luis del Pino article.

To allege that ESOE and PP would deliberately sponsor the killing of nearly 200 persons and the maiming of hundreds more to win the 2004 general election is breathtaking.

As breathtaking as how the international MSM covers up the issue.

And it is hard to imagine someone having knowledge of such a conspiracy not coming forward out of a sense of conscious during the following three years.

Well, some did, and the leadership of the Spanish Scientific Police are indicted, as I published last November. The rest, well, do you know the amount of money they are earning now that their corrupted friends are in office?

An easier argument to make - if you still want to consider the explosives evidence as valid - is that the local Islamofacist terrorist operatives established connections somehow with the ETA and obtained explosives from them to fill a gap in their supplies.

Stop here! A question: why did not they syntesize them like in London or mix it like in the WTC in 1993? Islamists in Anglosaxon countries do better in chemistry?

Let's continue:

Use of ETA explosives as an attempt to throw suspicion off of themselves is unlikely since al Qaeda wanted to (and subsequently did) take credit for the attack as punishment to Spain for supporting the GWOT and as a warning to Europe to elect governments more sympathetic to Islamic causes. Something Spain subsequently did.

The point that AlQaeda cannot lie is simply like the point that ETA has to give always a warning before an attack. It is to attribute characteristics to people and organizations they don't have.

Captain Rhino, 3/11 was not an Islamic attack, and the people that obtained profit from the massacring of 192 Spaniards, are not people living in remote deserts, but quite pale guys with offices in the Western world. Their profit has been well disguished under the Islamic claiming, and now might turn into an increasing cost.

I am afraid, not a so good business after all.

[Bogey78O]

Couldn't it be entirely plausible that ETA supplied material to the irhabis who bombed the train?

[J Aguilar]

We don't have direct data on whom planted the bombs in the trains, Bogey780. Unlike London or 9/11, no video shows the bombers boarding the trains.

However, we know that Spanish high rank police officers have allegedly lied, and now face up to six years in prison, to cover-up not ETA's role, but a simple comment concerning ETA on a report in the 3/11 case.

It is highly unlikely, that they, and Zapatero's government, keep silence if the real perpetrators were other Islamists. No such cover-up, that reaches even the Anglosphere, would have been necessary.

Therefore, the truth is far worse.

[Tailgunner Joe]

ALLIES IN TERROR - ETA established contact with the People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) in 1970. A number of ETA militants were trained in various PFLP camps both in Lebanon and Libya. British and Spanish intelligence have also established ETA's link with Libya at least until 1986. During that period Libya supplied the Basque terror group with money and arms.

An ETA delegation has visited Tehran every year since 1985 to participate in an annual gathering of "anti-Imperialist" movements that is held annually from Feb. 1 to Feb. 11. (The Tehran terror-fest, known as "The Ten Days of Dawn," celebrates the victory of the 1979 Islamist Revolution). Indeed, the list of ETA and Islamist-terrorist links is long and well-documented:

• In 1986, the French police identified one Vahid Gorji, an attaché at the Iranian Embassy in Paris, as the mullahs' liaison officer with European terror groups, including ETA. (Gorji was subsequently allowed to fly home under escort as Iran and France severed diplomatic ties.)

• In 1993, ETA -- along with a dozen other Western terrorist organizations -- had observers in the largest ever gathering of Islamist groups held in Khartoum, the Sudanese capital. The conference elected a nine-member "steering committee" that included Osama bin Laden.

• In 1998, Spanish police arrested another Iranian agent, Rahman Dezfouli, on charges of contacts with ETA. He, too, was subsequently expelled because he was the holder of an Iranian "service passport."

ETA's literature, as disseminated over the past three decades, is replete with expressions of sympathy for various Islamist causes including "wiping Israel off the map" and "driving the American Imperialists out of the world." In exchange, al Qaeda literature has paid tribute to ETA's "heroic struggle" for Basque independence. Ayman al-Zawahiri, the al Qaeda second-in-command, has spoken of his dream of "liberating Andalusia," the part of Spain once ruled by Muslims, presumably letting ETA rule its own neck of the wood in the Basque country.