How’s this, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints teaches Christianity. Now you may disagree with what we teach, you may say we have doctrines wrong, but we teach of Christ, we reserve the right to say the same of other churches.
>>
***(note, below when I say doctrine I am including the Journal of Discourses, BOM, POGP, etc; all of this is based on what I've studied and researched while investigating the church; yes, I am technically a member of the Church; but after really delving into the research, I have found the doctrine to not be true; Although I would suggest to you that the Mormon Church views all non-Mormon churches as Apostates via the great apostacy; this can be seen clearly in discourses and teachings by various Prophets of the church)***
The LDS doctrine teaches of a Jesus Christ who is the brother of Satan. It is that point of teaching that I have found no biblical basis. Therefore, I can't say that the Mormon doctrine is Christian because I don't believe that the Bible teaches that Satan and Christ are brothers, so the question FOR ME becomes what Christ does the Mormon church follow?
Also, the Mormon doctrine seems to contradict itself in regard to how we came into existence. The King Follet discourse teaches that God did not have the power to create our spirits, and that we always existed and that God simply organized us and directed us. And contrary to that teaching from the King Follet discourse, the Mormon doctrine also teaches that we were born in Heaven by Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. Both of those are totally contrary and mutually exclusive suppositions.
I believe and always have believed that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient. The Mormon doctrine teaches that he is not Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.
That, and other reasons, are why I can't say that the Mormon doctrine and people who practice it are Christian. I sincerely hope that they are Christian in God's eyes which is really all that matters. ***Remember, all of this is in the context of would I vote for one for president*** Would I treat Mormons as Christian Brothers and Sisters on an individual basis? Absolutely, without question. I'd give the shirt off my back to help a Mormon in need. Heck, even now, I have Mormon friends that I've know for decades. Needless to say, I don't get into in depth conversations (like here) about why I think they are wrong in their belief. Out of respect for them I would not as I don't think that would be the proper forum (i.e I play basketball at the local ward buildings with them, I even attend Sacrament frequently with my family).
>>I do hope however that if I were on trial fro being a Christian that there would be sufficient evidence to convict me with out as lengthy trial (grin).
Same here. God is going to judge me, and I am far from perfect and I am continuing to strive to ACT and BE as a Christian should be, and to live in true faith in Christ.
>>OK, so how do you tell? (I really do want to know)
I don't know if someone is a true Christian. I do have to make the personal judgement as to whether they are trying to be Christian. I look at their actions and their stated beliefs to help guide me. I've gone to several "born-again" churches and have gone to their service and not felt the presence of Christ (in fact, there isn't even a picture of Christ on their walls, but lots of pictures of the pastor). That's one thing that I do value in the Mormon church is that they do have Christ's picture in all buildings and there is a reverence in their services.
>>Have you ever heard Rocky Anderson talk about the church? I would want to know what your positions were, and then I would decide based on that.
No, I haven't heard anything about Rocky Anderson.
>>Pardon the questions, but were you a member? If not you cannot be “Apostate” if you just investigated, you are still an investigator, or maybe just non-member, but apostate is a term for those who have turned away from the truth after knowing it.
I technically still am a member. I go to Sacrament often along with my family members. Sealed in the Temple and received the Priesthood, but after doing much research, I have come to the conclusion that the church doctrine is not true.
>> I thought it was whether or not his religion would affect your vote, but I am probably picking at nits here (hey it’s my hobby, OK?)
Yes, nit picking you are. :P
>> None of these “Points” matter if the candidate in question does not hold conservative values which is why I am puling for Fred Thompson for POTUS.
I'm still reserving judgement on Thompson. I think he has supported the Bush amnesty stuff and I think he's big on H1Bs and Free (but unfair) Trade. He does initially strike me as a Reagen-esque type, though.
>>but after really delving into the research, I have found the doctrine to not be true;
I will take at face value your assertion that your analysis did not bring you the results you had hoped for. As for proving the Gospel false, that is actually very easy, prove the Book of Mormon to be false, and you’ve done it. Many have tried for years and failed. Proving it true is also very easy, pray about it and get an answer from God and nothing else will really matter.
>>Although I would suggest to you that the Mormon Church views all non-Mormon
>>churches as Apostates via the great apostacy; this can be seen clearly in discourses
>>and teachings by various Prophets of the church
Generally the appellation of Apostate is reserved for those who openly reject the church, not for their children. The Doctrine and Dogma of a church can be apostate without the members themselves being apostate. Just my opinion, you seem to still have an open mind, so I would not even call you an apostate, merely “Troubled”. I hope that does not offend you.
>>The LDS doctrine teaches of a Jesus Christ who is the brother of Satan
Yes, we are all brothers of Satan and Jesus also, I will share with you a few scriptures, not trying to be exhaustive, but a few that back up that interpretation, if it’s ok with you.
If you turn to Revelations Chapter 12 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/rev/12/3-4,7-10,17#3) read the whole thing through first so everything will be in context, then look at Verses
3, the dragon is another name for Stan Biblically, and this is a retelling of the war in heaven before the world was.
4. Satan drew 1/3 of the children after him in his rebellion.
Now this rebellion happened before the world was, so Satan and all of us must have existed then in some form.
Now go to 7 Michael who was later called Adam in mortality, lead the fight in heaven before the world was, Satan has his own structure and hexarchy of followers copied from the Father, they are called Angels jut as Gods Angels are.
8&9 Satan lost and he and his angels were cast out of heaven down to the earth.
Verse ten is very important for your point, I will include it here.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
So, Satan and his angels were “brethren” to Jesus, and Michael.
17 Satan now makes war with those who strive to keep the Commandments and serve Jesus.
Now I will leave Revelations, and go to some of the other scriptures in the Bible.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Thus we see that God has more than one son, and Satan can be numbered in this group.
“The Son of God” is a common name for Jesus Christ because he is preeminent among all the sons of God. (I could give you a ton of Scriptures for this one, but you could probably find as many as I could :-)
I could go on, but the idea that Jesus and Satan are brothers is far from without support in the Bible.
>>The LDS doctrine teaches of a Jesus Christ who is the brother of Satan. It is that point
>>of teaching that I have found no biblical basis. Therefore, I can’t say that the Mormon
>>doctrine is Christian because I don’t believe that the Bible teaches that Satan and
>>Christ are brothers, so the question FOR ME becomes what Christ does the Mormon
>>church follow?
We do not claim ownership of Jesus Christ, indeed no man can command him, we offer ourselves and take upon ourselves the Name of Jesus Christ even Jesus Born of Mary by a miraculous virgin birth. This is the Jesus of whom we speak.
Some times I think Christians are like the blind men describing the elephant to each other. We are describing the same elephant, but doing so imperfectly.
>>The King Follet discourse teaches that God did not have the power to create our spirits
Having read the King Follet discourse a while ago (and I confess it was some time ago) I am not aware of this passage, Intelligence (which is not Spirit matter) cannot be created, nor destroyed, but that is not the same as giving birth to a spirit, or a Baby.
Please direct me to this passage of this discourse so I may more fully understand your position.
>> I believe and always have believed that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent,
>>Omniscient. The Mormon doctrine teaches that he is not Omnipotent, Omnipresent,
>>and Omniscient.
That is strange since I have been taught that God knows all, sees all and with him all things are possible. In short, I believe he is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient please show me where it is taught that he is not, for I am only aware of where these attributes of his are affirmed, and if you wish, I can provide links to such teachings, but I am trying not to write a book in response to your questions, so, for the moment, I will forgo those quotations.
>> I sincerely hope that they are Christian in God’s eyes which is really all that matters.
I agree with you on this completely.
>> ***Remember, all of this is in the context of would I vote for one for president***
Yes, I remember, but I still can’t fathom why A mans religious conviction would be more important than his political convictions. This is a secular job after all, isn’t it?
>> No, I haven’t heard anything about Rocky Anderson.
Rockey Anderson is the Mayor of SLC and is a rabid anti-Mormon who never misses an opportunity to stick his finger in the eye of the church. That said, it keeps the non-Mormons happy to have him there, so much so that they turn out in droves to re-elect him.
>> I’m still reserving judgement on Thompson. I think he has supported the Bush
>>amnesty stuff and I think he’s big on H1Bs and Free (but unfair) Trade. He does
>>initially strike me as a Reagen-esque type, though.
As for Fred, Well, here is a link to him on Fox News, hear him in his own words, and yes, he talks about illegal immigration, and Roe V Wade, and Libby.
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snw7_6mJf5c
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN3z4mqRn7I
Have a good day, and I hope I have not offended you.