Are You Concerned About Mitt Romney's Faith?

LDS.org ^ | 3/31/07 | Reaganesque

[Reaganesque]

There has been much controversy here at Free Republic about a Mormon running for President. Mitt Romney has been questioned about his faith and many people here have posted things here expressing concern about what they consider to be "weird" doctrines. Today and tomorrow, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is holding their 177th Semi-Annual General Conference in which the leaders of the church address the membership around the world directly.

In light of the many misconceptions regarding the LDS (Mormon) church here on FR, I offer the following links for those who have questions and concerns about Mitt and his faith. Conference is a great opportunity for those who know little about the Mormon church to have a few questions answered; to get your answers straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Therefore, here is a link to the broadcast website:

April 2007 LDS General Conference

There are audio streams available in multiple languages and video from KSL TV in Salt Lake City and KBYU, Brigham Young University's television station. The video links are in the first paragraph at the top of the page.

The next session begins at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central. Tomorrow's sessions will be at 12 noon/11 am Central and 4 pm Eastern/3 pm Central. Sessions are 2 hours long.

It is a public broadcast so no passwords or registration are required.

[Jeff Head]

I shared my witness of Jesus Christ with another on this thread at post 73, I do so now with you. He is my personal Savior and the author of my Savlation. His atonement is effective in my life.

Born of Mary, taken to Egypt to avoid Herod,taught in the temple, turned water to wine, raised the dead, healed the sick, and came to accomplish his great redemption for all who freely accept Him, which He did in the Garden and on the cross. Rose the thrrd day as the first fruits of the resurrection so that we might all liv again.

This is my Savior, this is my God and the only one to whom I look for salvation. I wintess in the sincerity of my heart of this to you txzman...and I am also LDS.

Having been raised a Baptist and then emersed in the evangelical movement, I know that this witness it sufficent for your own beliefs of all others and their coming to Christ...I know it is also effective for me and all other matters pale in comparison and are secondary to this great truth.

[DelphiUser]

>>Mormonism is NOT a Christian faith or denomination.

txzman is not a conservative!

See how easy it is to make bald unsupported assertions? I ask by what right do you judge me? Are you Jesus? Only he can see my heart. Only he can see if I truly believe in him. Only he can accept or reject my faith. Judge not was given specifically for this instance of Christians deciding other Christians just don’t measure up.

[fewz]

Being LDS doesn’t bother me as I have relatives and friends who are LDS and they are all good people. What bothers me is that he was elected governor by the same people that routinely send Kennedy and Kerry to the U.S. Senate. Ditto for a non-LDS elected mayor by the same people that send Clinton and Shumer to the Senate. I would have a hard time voting for either and it has nothing to do with religion or lack of.

[DelphiUser]

>>Also, Joseph Smith taught that God did not create our spirits. He taught that God did
>>not have the power to create our spirits. Yet, the LDS Church teaches that our spirits
>>were born of God and a Heavenly Mother. So, Jesus was born thus and Satan was born
>>thus and we were born thus. Was Joseph Smith wrong, or is the current teaching of the
>>church wrong? For reference, check out the King Follett discourse in Joseph's own
>>words.

Please tell me where this can be found in the King Follet discourse, a link would be best.
Here is a topical link to the King Follet discourse you may use to send me a link, unless you have another site you prefer.

[DelphiUser]

>>Jeff, there was no valid reason for the group of Mormon men to kill those 150 or so travelers of men women and children. Period.

For more information On why the Mountain Meadows Massacre happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haun's_Mill_massacre

[DelphiUser]

>> I will only support those that fit my narrow definition of a Christian. That's my right.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist posting the following (I hope you have a sense of humor)



> I do not believe that the office of the President should be secular. Well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one, President <> Pope in my book.

>> And you are a hypocrite.

An ad homonym attack already?

>>You wouldn't for a moment vote for…

I would vote for the best person for the job regardless of his religion. This “Best Candidate” will not run the office like he was the Pope of the US, or the Ayatollah, or the Billy Grahm of the USA, but will run the government according to the constitution.

>>Hypocrite.

I am comfortable with my words being my judge on this.

>>Conservatism needs people to stand on principle. Principles yes, religion, no.

>>Something that you obviously can't do, otherwise, you would only vote for a Christian for President, as well. .

Interesting, didn’t this start with me taking umbrage that you didn’t think I was a Christian? So why would I only vote for a Christian if am not one (grin).

Because I don’t have the same religious bigotry you are displaying here, I am pushing for Fred Thompson to be the next POTUS, not Mitt Romney, you should be happy because Fred is a protestant, (I believe the Church of Christ in Tennessee is considered Christian by most) instead of voting myopically for Mitt the “man of my church” as most here assume my vote will be

I find it funny that you call me a hypocrite for doing what I say you should be doing and voting for the best man, not the man who most closely holds to my religion.

Have a nice day.

[DelphiUser]

>>I am sorry, but it is not the Bible Mormon's interpret, for by the Bible Mormon's are
>>NOT Christian - for the Mormon faith, writings and teaching directly refutes and
>>contradicts the words of Jesus in the Bible itself.

OK, I’ll give you one shot.

Name one (it should be easy for you) Doctrine of the church that cannot be supported by the Bible.

I will then show you where in the bible it comes from.

Just to be fair, Ill start with one against most “Christian” churches. The word “Trinity” never appears in the Bible, where “God Head” does.

[Recovering Hermit]

Politicians believe in power, for otherwise they have no business being in the business. Every other belief of theirs is at most secondary, and frequently fictitious.

You hammered that nail, buddy.

[godfamilyand country]

Congratulations....you have stepped up to the plate and have batted 1000 % ....1000% WRONG in each statement.

Mitt is solid pro-life. He opposes embryonic research as this would destroy sacred human life. He feels that gays have rights but NOT the right of marriage. He vigoriously supports marriage ONLY between a woman and a man and wants a constitutional amendment to define and defend this time tested institution.....It is after all, the foundation of society.

If a Christian is someone who believes in and strives to live the teachings of Christ....then you can include as Christians the members of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of LATTER-Day Saints...nicked named the Mormons.

I once was a nonpracticing, in name only Christian who was getting more secularized each passing day. But after converting I now measure everything that I do by the standards of Jesus Christ as taught in the scriptures. As a Mormon I declare that there is no other name or way under heaven whereby a man or woman can be saved but by, and through Jesus Christ the living Son of God.

You may oppose Mitt for legitimate reasons but claiming he isn't a Christian is factually wrong.

I support Mitt because of his CONSERVATIVE positions and not because of his faith. Harry Reid,(US Senate Majority Leader) is also Mormon but I could never support him politically even though we are both Mormons. Mr Reid is liberal and wants more gov't(i.e.less freedom) ...Mitt is, as he recently stated, "as conservative as the constitution" Mittromney.com has his positions clearly spelled out....why not get the unfiltered facts by going to his website?

[jatopilot99]

I never said that Mormons are not Christian. What I said is that in my opinion, after having researched, I cannot say that they are Christians.

I hope you consider yourself a Christian, and I assume that you do.

[jatopilot99]

Mitt Romney fully funded Planned Parenthood in his state of Mass. He attacked the folks who wanted Terri Schiavo to live. He attacked a standing general because the General said that the gay lifestyle is immoral.

Mitt doesn't have a chance, sorry. The coming months will show that I am telling the truth. Write back then and we'll see who was enlightened, and who was not.

[jatopilot99]

He is a CINO.

He's fully funded Planned Parenthood during his term in office. He's funded homosexual organizations and agenda. He's cowtowed to the Log Cabin Republicans. He supports embryonic stem cell research 100%.

[mombonn]

As a Bible-believing Baptist, no, I am not the least bit concerned about his faith.

Personally, however, I hope Fred Thompson steps up to the plate.

And, no, I don't care what Dobson said about him, either.

[DelphiUser]

>>I never said that Mormons are not Christian.

Your post #34 from this very thread “I would never vote for a Mormon as President, just as I would never vote for a Muslim or Buddhist, or anyone other than a Christian.” (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1809873/posts?page=34#34)

You are inconsistent at best.

>>What I said is that in my opinion, after having researched, I cannot say that they are Christians.

That is not what you said.

What exactly does it take to make someone a Christian?

How are you going to discover what is in my heart with “Research”?

In my ignorance, I thought it was a sincere belief in Jesus Christ and acceptance of him as my personal savior (which I have done). I have also taken the required step of showing my faith by being baptized in his name. I am willing to do whatever my Lord and Savior asks.

Please explain what else you think is required.

>>I hope you consider yourself a Christian, and I assume that you do.

I have already stated that I do, you however have stated that I am not, now you hope I’ll vote for a “Christian” anyway, even though you don’t consider me one.

Do you see how you sound here?

I wish you well, and I hope Jesus gives you the charity to accept others who are believers in him.

[Tarpon]

No, no concern on my part about anyone's religion, except Islam -- But I don't like Romney's mealy mouthed ways. It's like he is always trying to figure out what you want to hear him say before he starts talking. I also don't see him as a staunch supporter of the war on Islamo-Fascists.

[restornu]

You been here since March 17, 2007 your alter ego wouldn't be "Justche" would it?

[NavyCanDo]

Not at all concerned. Reagan did not beat us over the head with his faith and neither will Mitt. Although I don't subscribe to the LDS teachings, I admire their family values, they make great neighbors, and you gotta love the way they vote. I would not have a problem voting for him if he's top man in Nov 08

[jatopilot99]

Ok, let me clear this up.

I may have mis-stated. What I've been trying to get across is that after doing my own research and contemplation and prayer, etc, researching the LDS church (for the purpose of joining), I came to the conclusion that I can't honestly say that Mormons are in fact Christian.

That doesn't mean that they aren't. That just means that I can't say for a sureity that they are. I certainly hope they are.

Since I personally can't tell if a Mormon is a Christian or not, I would not vote for one for POTUS. That's just my preference in who I vote for.

I'm not going to tell someone that they aren't Christian, that's not my place. But that doesn't mean that I necessarily believe that they are because they said so.

I'm sure there are people who would think that I am not a Christian because of some reason or another. I'm sure most Mormons would view me as an apostate. I don't take offense to that, because I know that is just part of their belief system. And I would not begrudge them for not wanting to vote for me, for example, as Mayor of Salt Lake City, since I am an apostate to them.

The topic here is would I vote for a Mormon for President. No, I would not. But most Mormons I know are great people that I am proud to call friends and fellow citizens.

[DelphiUser]

>>I may have mis-stated. What I've been trying to get across is that after doing my own
>>research and contemplation and prayer, etc, researching the LDS church (for the
>>purpose of joining), I came to the conclusion that I can't honestly say that Mormons
>>are in fact Christian.

This is not the impression your post left m with (grin).

That said I think most will agree with me that no church can guarantee that all their members are Christians. I believe that That conversion is a personal thing, and you will not necessarily find out through research if a person is a Christian or not.

I do hope however that if I were on trial fro being a Christian that there would be sufficient evidence to convict me with out as lengthy trial (grin).

>>That doesn't mean that they aren't. That just means that I can't say for a sureity that
>>they are. I certainly hope they are.

How’s this, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints teaches Christianity. Now you may disagree with what we teach, you may say we have doctrines wrong, but we teach of Christ, we reserve the right to say the same of other churches.

>>Since I personally can't tell if a Mormon is a Christian or not, I would not vote for one
>>for POTUS. That's just my preference in who I vote for.

How do you know if anyone is Christian or not? (Bill Clinton carried around this huge Bible, and I don’t consider him a particularly good example of Christianity)

I think any religions “Politicians” would be a horrible way for that religion to be judged. (just my opinion)

>>I'm not going to tell someone that they aren't Christian, that's not my place.

That is what it sounded like at first I must admit.

>>But that doesn't mean that I necessarily believe that they are because they said so.

OK, so how do you tell? (I really do want to know)

>>I'm sure there are people who would think that I am not a Christian because of some reason or another. I'm sure most Mormons would view me as an apostate.

Pardon the questions, but were you a member? If not you cannot be “Apostate” if you just investigated, you are still an investigator, or maybe just non-member, but apostate is a term for those who have turned away from the truth after knowing it.

I do not consider you apostate.
I will also (in lieu of evidence to the contrary) take you at your word at you are a Christian.

>>I don't take offense to that, because I know that is just part of their belief system.

Good, I for one am offended by all the people who are so easily offended out there /humor

>>I would not begrudge them for not wanting to vote for me, for example, as Mayor of
>>Salt Lake City, since I am an apostate to them.

Have you ever heard Rocky Anderson talk about the church? I would want to know what your positions were, and then I would decide based on that.

>>The topic here is would I vote for a Mormon for President.

I thought it was whether or not his religion would affect your vote, but I am probably picking at nits here (hey it’s my hobby, OK?)

>>most Mormons I know are great people that I am proud to call friends and fellow citizens.

After making this statement I really don’t understand why you would not vote for a Mormon. Let me make a couple of statements about the teachings of the church tat should make a” Mormon President” more attractive than the same candidate who is not a Mormon.

1. Mormons believe the constitution to be an inspired document (s we would be likely to actually follow it)
2. Mormons Believe in obeying the law of the land (we quit polygamy because it became illegal so a Mormon should try to obey the law)
3. Mormons believe in keeping oaths, we are an oath making and keeping religion, so the oath of office should mean something to a Mormon president.
4. Mormons understand the history of Arabs as we are also descendant’s of Abraham (well most of us)
5. A Mormon president who slept around on his wife would find himself an Ex-Mormon President, where Bill Clinton still claims to be a Baptist.

None of these “Points” matter if the candidate in question does not hold conservative values which is why I am puling for Fred Thompson for POTUS.

[jatopilot99]

How’s this, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints teaches Christianity. Now you may disagree with what we teach, you may say we have doctrines wrong, but we teach of Christ, we reserve the right to say the same of other churches.

>>
***(note, below when I say doctrine I am including the Journal of Discourses, BOM, POGP, etc; all of this is based on what I've studied and researched while investigating the church; yes, I am technically a member of the Church; but after really delving into the research, I have found the doctrine to not be true; Although I would suggest to you that the Mormon Church views all non-Mormon churches as Apostates via the great apostacy; this can be seen clearly in discourses and teachings by various Prophets of the church)***

The LDS doctrine teaches of a Jesus Christ who is the brother of Satan. It is that point of teaching that I have found no biblical basis. Therefore, I can't say that the Mormon doctrine is Christian because I don't believe that the Bible teaches that Satan and Christ are brothers, so the question FOR ME becomes what Christ does the Mormon church follow?

Also, the Mormon doctrine seems to contradict itself in regard to how we came into existence. The King Follet discourse teaches that God did not have the power to create our spirits, and that we always existed and that God simply organized us and directed us. And contrary to that teaching from the King Follet discourse, the Mormon doctrine also teaches that we were born in Heaven by Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. Both of those are totally contrary and mutually exclusive suppositions.

I believe and always have believed that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient. The Mormon doctrine teaches that he is not Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient.

That, and other reasons, are why I can't say that the Mormon doctrine and people who practice it are Christian. I sincerely hope that they are Christian in God's eyes which is really all that matters. ***Remember, all of this is in the context of would I vote for one for president*** Would I treat Mormons as Christian Brothers and Sisters on an individual basis? Absolutely, without question. I'd give the shirt off my back to help a Mormon in need. Heck, even now, I have Mormon friends that I've know for decades. Needless to say, I don't get into in depth conversations (like here) about why I think they are wrong in their belief. Out of respect for them I would not as I don't think that would be the proper forum (i.e I play basketball at the local ward buildings with them, I even attend Sacrament frequently with my family).

>>I do hope however that if I were on trial fro being a Christian that there would be sufficient evidence to convict me with out as lengthy trial (grin).

Same here. God is going to judge me, and I am far from perfect and I am continuing to strive to ACT and BE as a Christian should be, and to live in true faith in Christ.

>>OK, so how do you tell? (I really do want to know)

I don't know if someone is a true Christian. I do have to make the personal judgement as to whether they are trying to be Christian. I look at their actions and their stated beliefs to help guide me. I've gone to several "born-again" churches and have gone to their service and not felt the presence of Christ (in fact, there isn't even a picture of Christ on their walls, but lots of pictures of the pastor). That's one thing that I do value in the Mormon church is that they do have Christ's picture in all buildings and there is a reverence in their services.

>>Have you ever heard Rocky Anderson talk about the church? I would want to know what your positions were, and then I would decide based on that.

No, I haven't heard anything about Rocky Anderson.

>>Pardon the questions, but were you a member? If not you cannot be “Apostate” if you just investigated, you are still an investigator, or maybe just non-member, but apostate is a term for those who have turned away from the truth after knowing it.

I technically still am a member. I go to Sacrament often along with my family members. Sealed in the Temple and received the Priesthood, but after doing much research, I have come to the conclusion that the church doctrine is not true.

>> I thought it was whether or not his religion would affect your vote, but I am probably picking at nits here (hey it’s my hobby, OK?)

Yes, nit picking you are. :P

>> None of these “Points” matter if the candidate in question does not hold conservative values which is why I am puling for Fred Thompson for POTUS.

I'm still reserving judgement on Thompson. I think he has supported the Bush amnesty stuff and I think he's big on H1Bs and Free (but unfair) Trade. He does initially strike me as a Reagen-esque type, though.