The Gathering Storm Against Giuliani (Known Pro-Life Activists vow to oppose him in the GENERAL)

CBN ^ | 3-28-07 | David Brody

[airborne]

I'd much rather lose than have Rudy win.

Don't worry. We won't lose and Rudy won't win.

The tide is slowly turning.

[muleskinner]

Rudy puts Cal. in play - he'd do well- and I think he beats Hillary here in early polls. So she'd have to spend a massive amount of money here, reducing the amout she could spend in other states.

Something the democrats have not had to do since 1992.

[OpenBar]

"I'd much rather lose than have Rudy win. I know that I am not alone."

Republicans are being asked to "take one for the team" and get beaned by Nolan Ryan. No thanks.

[muleskinner]

So, why the hate for a good guy?

Calling a candidate a cake product is not hate.

Most of the hate here is reserved for Rudy.

And I've never seen anyone who prefers Rudy now, say they will sit out the election or vote third party , if Hunter is nominated. They - Rudy backers - have concluded that in a national election, Rudy has the best chance of beating the democrat.

But make no mistake, Rudy backers will vote for whomever Republican nominee happens to be.

Sorry for the dangling participle.

[airborne]

The Forbes endorsement ends the discussion. Rudy is in.

Well, that saves us from all those troublesome debates, primaries and the ever annoying voting!

Lucky you were here to save us! ;^)

[hosepipe]

Amazing that so many DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICANS want to TRICK voters into voting for "something".. i.e. vote for this because of that..

That is, Vote for BUSH because Hitlery is "more" EVIL..
I have a feeling that George Bush Jr.. has CURED many republicans of that ERROR..
Probably it was the obscene activities by Bush on immigration that cured us..
You would have thought the Sandy Berger affair would have done it but no its was immigration.. The border agent thing was just the kicker..

Less and less republicans are being bewitched daily.. because surely republicans are bewitched(brain washed).. 2008 will be an unusal election.. different than any other election..

[airborne]

"...if you are for Rudy you are not a conservative."

Not so, 'calex59'

If you are for Rudy you are not endorsing a conservative!

You've got to factor in well meaning fools.

[airborne]

Probably it was the obscene activities by Bush on immigration that cured us..

And let me remind everyone who thinks Rudy will be tough on terrorists, he supports the weak open borders, amnesty plan that President Bush is pushing.

[Buck W.]

"Most Giuliani supporters on this site are taking great pains to tear down Hunter and Gingrich."

Aside from the occasional aspersion, I haven't seen it. There has been nothing like the visceral hatred that's heaped on Giuliani in every post.

BTW--I disagree that I number among "few". I feel confident that most Rudy supporters would back the eventual R candidate, whoever it is.

[Buck W.]

rastus: As a follow up to my recent post to you, see the slam in the airborne post. Amusing, but a slam nonetheless.

[Barnacle]

What more should Republican conservatives want?

Certainly not this:

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

"Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." - Rudy Giuliani

[Barnacle]

If it's either Rudy or Hillary, you know which way you'll vote, and we do too, which is why the RNC isn't too worried about party unity issues.

By the time the Republican primary is done, people will say "Rudy who?"

[Phlap]

No problemo bro. Glad to be of service. lol

[writeblock]

Your litany on Rudy's liberalism doesn't worry me in the least. On abortion, for instance, while he privately is pro-choice, he has publicly promised he would appoint strict constructionists. This would effectively cancel out the effects of any personal liberal position. I personally don't give a rat's behind about what his private view is--as long as he acts publicly in a way that supports the Constitution. Right now abortion is legal. The way around this is through the courts and through the courts only--as Rudy appreciates. That's good enough for me.

His position on gay rights and on gun control is to keep the federal government out of these issues and leave them to the local governments. Again, fine by me. On immigration, his view is the same as Bush's--he's for a guest worker program. Nothing especially alarming about that--many good conservatives hold this view--and it's certainly not an unusual position for the former mayor of a city which depends on immigrant workers to keep its hotels and restaurants running and its tourist industry thriving.

Here are some of Rudy's conservative credentials, based on Al Simmons' excellent run-down which appeared on another post. I've summarized it here.

Rudy has stated, for instance, that "government exists above all to keep people safe in their homes and in the streets, not to redistribute income, run a welfare state, or perform social engineering". That is quintissentially the conservative position.

So too is support for law and order. Crime in NYC plummeted to around 64% as a result of Rudy's administration, the murder rate alone declining 67%. Rudy shut down porn shops throughout the downtown tourist areas and kicked them out of residential neighborhoods. He went after drug dealers as well--something unheard of in NYC.

He also went after the welfare cheats, removing illegal recipients, cutting the outlay for welfare by 20%. Over 600,000 recipients were dropped from the roles. At the same time he began a work requirement program for remaining recipients.

He ended the set-aside program for minority contractors, refused to meet with Al Sharpton, and otherwise refused to be cowed by racial politics. He refused to lower job requirements for minorities and women. He pushed to reform the city's schools and supported school vouchers--another view that went against the liberal grain. Ditto his fight against using public money for anti-religious art displays. And on and on it goes.

He saved hundreds of millions of dollars by reorganizing the police force and transit authority and trash collection agencies. He cut taxes and levies over and over, saving billions for taxpayers. He cut NYC's top income-tax rate by 20.6%. Local city taxes on a family of four dropped 23.7%. He cut the commercial-rent tax. He cut sales taxes, including taxes on clothing. He cut the marriage penalty taz. He cut taxes on commercial rents and on small businesses and self-employed New Yorkers. He privatized municipal assets, selling city-owned radio and television stations and divested the City from the New York Coliseum adding $345 million to erase the City's red ink. He cut NYC's hotel tax from 6% to 5%. Tourism increased 50% in the city per year during Rudy's tenure. Personal income increased 50%. Unemployment in the city went form 10.3% to 5.1%.

In all of this he was fought by the liberal media, beginning with the NYTimes, every step of the way. But he fought back and won over public opinion time and time again. Nor was he just successful as mayor. As a U.S. Attorney in the Reagan administration, Rudy amassed more than 4,000 convictions, including the five family heads of NY's notorious Mob. He went after Wall Street white collar criminals. He also prosecuted terrorists and illegal immigrants.

What other candidate has such a resume?

[ZULU]

I told you so!!

[WileyPink]

No, we're not electing a pope or a preacher. But, his personal views and beliefs are not in a vacuum either. Let's see, abortion, gun control, homosexual marriage. I believe that a person's views on these issues would and will shape how that person governs. Character does matter!

[Halgr]

I second that motion ;-)

[Halgr]

I think the latest FReeper Poll puts to rest the issue of Rudy....Thompson was a clear winner....now its up to us FReepers to educate the rest of the republican party

See...thats how Rudy could become a non-issue.

;-)

[ElectricStrawberry]

I don't wear hats. You're talking through your support for Rudy...and are too blinded by that support to see anything negative.

Polls shmolls....here I thought only liberal Democrats lived by polls. Care to see some polls where Howie was running rough-shod over Johnny 3 years ago at a factor of 3 or 4 or 5 to 1?

[writeblock]

"I think the latest FReeper Poll puts to rest the issue of Rudy....Thompson was a clear winner....now its up to us FReepers to educate the rest of the republican party"

Don't flatter yourself that you are educating anybody. He's a well-known quantity to most Republicans who understand politics. If anything, it's those who care little about politics per se who are ignorant of his true positions--which are in every case not as extreme as depicted on these threads.