Posted on 03/26/2007 6:59:22 AM PDT by presidio9
The feeling here heading into a potentially historic week, when British unionists and Irish nationalists could agree to form a government, might be described as one of prerelief. Relief because there is a sense that things are finally going to go right this time, but only a preliminary one because, well, they've been down this road before.
Today we'll learn what it will be this time: devolution of a raft of governing powers from London to a local assembly elected March 7, or dissolution of the assembly and an undefined joint custody between Britain and the Republic of Ireland to the south. After years of waiting for the Provisional Irish Republican Army and its political wing, Sinn Féin, to lay down their arms and accept the rule of law, all now hinges on the hard-line Democratic Unionist Party's agreeing to work with the nationalists. Over the weekend DUP leader Ian Paisley, the Protestant minister dubbed "Dr. No" for his refusal even to speak with Sinn Féin, demanded a six-week extension. For all the bluster, though, there is still a decent chance that an arrangement will be made.
If anyone embodies Northern Ireland's incomplete transition to self rule, it's Gerry Adams. The Sinn Féin leader is widely accused of, and always denies, having ties to the highest levels of the IRA. Either way, and right or wrong, the fact is that he's become a legitimate actor on the political stage in the eyes of the British. That the onus is on Mr. Paisley and the DUP to go along with power-sharing, or risk absorbing the public's outrage for failing to do so, goes to show just how much the perception of Mr. Adams and Sinn Féin has changed. The IRA, remember, is blamed
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
The problem is this:
For centuries England dominated Ireland, and persecuted the Irish Catholics. I do believe the Ulster Scotch-Irish, etc. should be equally represented, but England itself should have no say in what is decided.
England needs to stay out of the situation.
You need to read your History. The Roman Catholics were not given rights to own property, vote, hold office, etc. until the late 19th Century. And the English need to get their backsides out of Ireland and STAY OUT! One of my ancestors fought in the Easter Uprising of 1916, and he would have expressed his opinion much more bombastically than I......
There aren't many English in Ireland so if they left it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
Anyway, the troubles ended on 9/11. The IRA knew they couldn't kill toddlers in Shopping Malls and still expect American sympathy.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK until the people of Northern Ireland decide otherwise. That is accepted by the Republic of Ireland, Britain, the DUP, UUP, SDLP and Sinn Fein.
I don't like your tone ONE bit.
I gave you examples of how the Catholics were denied rights, and you scoff at that and at the 1916 Uprising.
That shows your lack of knowledge about the History of Ireland.
I think you are softhearted toward the Ian Paisley and his Orange murderers. They, by the way, are the ONLY ones who would vote for a non-Irish Government. The same traitors that helped William and the English persecute the Irish.
Think what you like, "Éireann go Brách" is the way it will be.
We will just see how long that lasts. My bet is not long.
And don't imply that the IRA are more guilty than Ian Paisley and his Orange scum. They are not.
Best I can tell by Irish Goverenment, you mean union with Ireland, not a self governing province as part of the UK.
If that is true, you are sadly mistaken. The majority of legal residents in Northern Ireland stilly clearly prefer affliation with the UK over Ireland. Whom would you disenfranchise to make your vision a reality? How many years or generations back should be required to vote on sovereignity?
Then you’re really going to hate mine.
I gave you examples of how the Catholics were denied rights, and you scoff at that and at the 1916 Uprising.
I’ve got news for you sunshine – the Irish have moved on. It’s not the 19th century anymore. You will never see an actual Irish person on these threads whinging on about the Famine or the Easter Uprising or the Penal Laws – but there are plenty of Irish American plastic paddies who do just that at the drop of a hat. Your rantings are so far removed from current realities in Ireland as to be laughable. You spout the usual 'Brits Out!' rubbish, but if that were to happen, the same problems would exist that do now - because the problems are between the Protestants and Catholics, and neither group is going anywhere. The only difference would be that the Republic of Ireland would be dealing with the nutjobs instead. And that's a task it has no desire to take on.
That shows your lack of knowledge about the History of Ireland
You do realize that elc grew up in Ireland, and has no doubt forgotten more Irish history than you will ever know? And, since we're talking about ignorance of history, Catholics got the right to vote in 1793, not at the end of the nineteenth century as you posted. Catholics (and Presbyterians) got the right to sit in Parliament in 1829. Looks like you’re the one who needs to learn some history
I think you are softhearted toward the Ian Paisley and his Orange murderers
Ian Paisley doesn’t have any “Orange murderers.” The DUP doesn’t have and never has had an illegal paramilitary wing at its back– unlike Sinn Fein. I’m sure you won’t believe this, but Ian Paisley is actually quite popular amongst his Catholic constituents, because he works for them and with them. He’s certainly opposed to Catholicism, but he does not hate Catholics. But since you hate him so much, it must really anger you that he is going to be First Minister in a few weeks. Thirty years of terrorism, and what did it get the IRA? Ian Paisley heading up the government, that’s what! Not quite the outcome they or their plastic pat fundraisers and gunrunners in New York and Boston expected, is it?
I don't recall addressing you......
I know plenty of Irish History, and just because I don't memorize every date, (which I am quite sure YOU didn't)
Doesn't make me less knowledgable. In spite of being an American, it doesn't mean I don't have family in Ireland, nor does that lessen the fact that my family FOUGHT to free Ireland from the English.
So...as they say (Shut your Gob!) :)
Fine. Ignore the questions. I now know your type. You have mentioned that Catholics need a say in their government (using the PRESENT tense) and you have consisently failed to give PRESENT day examples.
Typical SF/IRA troll.
Excellent post. However, minor correction - I did not grow up there, but I have lived there in my adult years, and mr. elc is from there.
53.13% Protestant
CAIN
58% - remain a part of the UK
23% - reunify with Ireland
7% - independent state
2% - other
11% - don't know
NI Life and Times Survey
I can look at those numbers and realize their is significant crossover from the Catholic population.
I have to wonder how much of those numbers are influenced by the booming Irish economy with its high growth and low taxes and the involvement of the UK in Iraq and Afganistan. In the past the numbers have been higher to remain part of the UK. The religous numbers also do not reflect how secular the area really is. If the numbers of weekly church attenders were used to determine Catholic or Protestant, they would not have been nearly so high.
It is amazing how many US pseudo Provos seem to think that there is massive political unrest in Northern Ireland...there really isn't. Most people are happy with the current situation and want to live their lives in peace and prosperity.
I honestly don't think you really know what is going on. The English and the Ulster Protestants are a different people. The Ulster Protestants are people who want to remain part of the UK whether England likes it or not. Ian Paisley or the other Unionists are not English.
Do you know that England, Great Britain and the UK all mean different things? I am British but I am not English.
As for Paisley and his Orange scum. Again your ignorance shows. Paisley is NOT a member of the Orange Order. Also, I won't get into your "They are worse than you" game as it is not one the real Irish play. The real Irish want all the people of Ireland to live in peace. This is the meaning of the Green, White and ORANGE Irish flag.
They too know it is the pretend Irish, who are ignorant of the facts, who like to keep the hatreds going.
To be honest the real Irish laugh at these people.
Just more than half of northern Catholics (60%) think of themselves as Irish and a still smaller proportion, 52%, said they were nationalist. Yet just 38% favour Irish unity over a range of other options. Nearly as many Catholics (32%) wanted to remain in the UK while 13% would prefer an independent Ulster.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/sunday_times/ireland/article685124.ece
Don't be insulting. I am no troll. If you look at my profile, you will figure that out.
My Great-Grandfather was full-blooded Irish, so that makes me about as Irish as an American can be. The only valid source I have for info would be family that live there.
(One Great Aunt in Dublin, and several cousins in Dublin, AND in Belfast.) Both Catholic, AND Protestant. I use the term "Orange" to describe Pro-English Irish. My family has no problem with a seperate Northern Ireland as long as the English stay out...And yes, I know the difference between British, English, UK, etc. I really have no hatred for any group, but I don't like people labeling the IRA as bloody terrorists, when in fact the Ulster Orange Groups were just as bloody.
Which means you are as Irish as me. In other words you are not.
I use the term "Orange" to describe Pro-English Irish.
So if you are pro-English you are "scum"? Disgusting comment.
I don't like people labeling the IRA as bloody terrorists...
Why not? They are bloody terrorists.
when in fact the Ulster Orange Groups were just as bloody.
To be specific, the Orange Paramilitaries where just as bloody. Yes, they are bloody terrorists who really ARE scum. Who said any different?
Separate the myths from reality.
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