Posted on 03/17/2007 7:32:42 AM PDT by amchugh
Regards to you and yours sir. (Eph 2:8-9)
Son of a wealthy Boston family and successful San Francisco businessman moves to northwest to have a go at the lumber industry. Enter the spotted owl and government, business fails, husband isolates family more than ever.
Distrust of government becomes obsessive and passed on to home-schooled children, debilitating illness attacks and keeps him bedridden, money gone, taxes on his choice somewhat isolated property not paid, out of town developers eye property.
He dies, local government plans to grab, detain grieving widow at funeral, search for reasons then backs off.
Home in shambles and desrepair, running water failed, refuse piling up, little food, matters are going beyond desperate.
Oldest daughter from first wife discharged from military, not physically fit, blames parents. "That's it!" cry the local government. "The children!"
Police trick widow into leaving home to apply for assistance. Arrest, charge her with "crimes" related to endangering the children, hospital alerted to care for sickly children.
Resentment against these disgusting parents grows among good people all across America.
Children become convinced the government killed their mother, get out rifles. Authorities there to take the children have to call police. Police decide to wait 'em out, decline offer of tanks and gunships from Washington, D.C. FBI HRT (just kidding).
Resentment turns to outrage, local government tells press that empty wine bottles spotted in refuse. "How could the parents brainwash and corrupt these poor malnourished starving children! Crucify the drunken *itch!" good Americans scream from coast to coast.
Oldest child (12?) tricked into leaving home and grabbed, gets his siblings to give up.
Children rushed to hospital -- big, big disappointment! They're healthy. They're well adjusted. They're well behaved. They're intelligent. They're well spoken and educated!
They're not normal IOW :)
Not to worry, justice has already been set in motion and the widow will go to prison. Supporters at her trial are denounced as extremist anti-government kooks.
Children given good homes. . .
That's where I left. I don't know how it finally ended.
Lots of this activity geenrated late in the BUSH I presidency and then all through the Clointon presidency and a lot of the appointees put in place by clinton, who were involved with these things, were promoted and came into policy making positions. A lot of them are still in there.
This event left a festering wound on the nation. The heat of the discussion here shows that the wound hasn't healed.
How can the wound heal when the murderers are still breathing?
A little corrective actions by the new (G.W. Bush) administration and tragically the 9/11 attacks prevented pulling the trigger.
Concur. Jury nullification has it's place.
Use the link to the excerpt site...it is, in essence, the entire book.
That stand off, although very tense to begin with, had developed to the point where there was not going to be a physical/armed confrontation. The Bush administration had been put into in a bad/tight place by the farmers and their supporters and Rove was moving towards having the administration correct the situation before 911 happened.
A study should be done on how that event came about and what occurred in terms of activism, internet networking, public opinion influencing, and pressure on elected officials. I believe it can be modeled, cookie cut, and used for future assaults of a similar nature.
I was not there but did follow the events closely on all new media: talk shows, Internet news and discussion groups.
It was generally known among those media that the Bush Administration had responded well. As I recall the farmers and all on the conservative side put Country above all else after 9/11.
I unzipped some old news stuff I have and was reminded that the response picked up in late 2001 beginning with independent evaluation of the government studies.
That reminded me that the new administration had a hard time getting their people into the Interior Department and the Gore people out. (Ditto all agencies.) I remember calling my Congressman's local office staff to ask about the problem. The Administration had its hands full dealling with the turnover.
As late as August, 2001 the Administration still had not quite gotten the message. As one columnist put it, "If the president listens to advisors who think to finesse the problem with the usual mind games and double-talk designed to placate the implacable greenies he will have cause to regret it -- and so will the rest of us."
Thanks again for the link to your reports.
All of you scream "entrapment" yet Weaver actually thought he was selling sawed off shotguns to a friggin Aryan Biker who was going to resell them to black "mud people" gangs, who would only use them to kill each other.
He did it for the money. Thats not entrapment.
My original premise still stands. Weaver and his wife let her "visions" and their paranoia put thier kids at risk. Its was stupid. He would still have his wife today.
I admit the fools that ran the attack on his house screwed up big time, but he was still the one responsible for his childrens safety.
Whatever Gritz was during Vietnam he sure has shown his ass since. You worship a full fledged nut who only makes money off of ignorant people like you. He injects himself in these situations like Jessie Jackson does during a racial event. Hell he forced his way in to the Freeman stand off then badmouthed them when they wouldnt follow him out. He hangs with the worst our nation has to offer just because they worship him. Its no smear to tell the truth about what he has become. Hell Tim McVeiegh was a good soldier.
As far as Weaver is concerned, despite the continued comments of some to the contrary...his story is much different regarding the reason for his sale of the shotguns as opposed to what the undercover, paid informant had to say about it (which should come as no surprise because it is clear that the informant, was a liar from the getgo to Randy), and it is clear that the jury believed Weaver.
As far as Weaver was concerned, he was selling a shotgun to a friend of several years, who saw that he needed the money badly that summer and was getting weapons he wanted in exchange for the money. So, yes, he was doing it for the money to try and help get his family through that year. Then the informant, showed him where he wanted it cut off and when Randy complied, the informant came out from his cover and tried to use the 1/4" too much as a lever over Randy to get him to go undercover with the Aryan Nations...which Randy wanted no part of.
Pure entrapment, creating a crime where there was no crime and no criminal intent. The Jury saw it that way too. That ought to be the end of story on that issue.
Bookmark
I cannot find the link but one of the US Marshals plans was to kidnap Vicki Weaver to force Weaver out before the stand off. That in itself says a lot. Great posts. Thanks!
As I recall, Randy's wife was with him all the way - she wasn't just one of the "kids." She knew the risk, probably better than he did. I think that's why she was shot - giving Randy a message. Nevertheless, what happened to her and her son goes down in my book as an atrocity.
How are you today?
What you say in your reply about Mr. Weaver is not completely unreasonable to me. We disagree.
To wit, "Weaver and his wife let her 'visions' and their paranoia put their kids at risk. Its was stupid."
It's trite but true but... there's no law against being "stupid" and no harm. Of course stupidity cannot be used as an excuse if other laws are violated.
We totally disagree on how "it all got started" and the family was put at risk. So be it.
Maybe it's my disposition as a confirmed "loner" but I find nothing wrong with being that kind of stupid.
We certainly agree that "the fools that ran the attack on his house screwed up big time."
As for Klamath Falls, yes in the beginning there were some outsiders trying to help the farmers and merchants. The outsiders had a score to settle with the government -- they were mostly from the spotted-owl-devastated lumber industry, I believe. There may have been some of the type you mention, also. They were not welcomed.
I would like to see any valid sources that the groups you mentioned had any influence at Klamath Falls. I certainly recall that every effort was made to exclude them.
Mr. Gritz said that he and a local real estate agent were in the area near the cabin. They saw a helicopter approach with a large object hanging from the helicopter -- like one of the fire-fighting helicopters.
Both men were out in the open and Mr. Gritz was sure that they were spotted by the men aboard the helicopter. The helicopter changed direction and left the area.
Mr. Gritz suggested that just possibly the Weaver cabin was about to have a fire -- I can spectulate how it would have been reported -- "White supremacist kills wife, children, and self with arsenal of napalm bombs and flamethrowers! Federal agents look on in horror, wait for rest of arsenal to explode."
Yes, I really believe that "that's the way it is."
Very few federal employees are "evil" but a hell of a lot have the attitude that "it all counts toward 30," in my opinion.
Bo Gritz - I was there at Ruby Ridge.
A local news reporter and one of his friends were the ones who gave the best account of the helicopter they saw flying over the house with the bucket extended, but Bo does mention it in his second letter.
Claire Wolfe's "You will pay for this some day", is also very good.
So the helicopter was real but it was a newsman and a logger who witnessed the helicopter and "[w]hen seen, the pilot flew the chopper back to the main valley base."
There was "a helicopter with a fuel cell hover[ing] over the cabin with the threat of burning them out."
I wonder what the pilot was thinking? "It all counts toward 30." I bet.
You dont have to tell anyone that bud. It kinda comes through on its own..
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