The Secret Rulers of the World: The Legend of Ruby Ridge

BBC Channel 4 Video Documentary ^ | ? | Jon Ronson

[amchugh]

This is one part of a five part series done for BBC Channel 4. It focusses on Ruby Ridge and the Weaver family, with some digression into seperatists, conspiracy theorists, etc...

[WilliamofCarmichael]

I am sure you remember that it took years of citizens writing, doing appearances and talk radio interviews to get Congress to look at Ruby Ridge (and Waco).

Over the years of their efforts they suffered abuse, threats, and ridicule.

I was lucky to live in an area of activist talk radio (mostly KSFO's original live lineup) and we were fully informed.

Finally the hearings came. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if there were still a "Fairness Doctrine" and station managers fearing to get involved. Mr. Weaver and Mr. Harris would at a minimum be doing life?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

I do not recall hearing of the "friendly" fire incident. It makes sense. I remember Mr. Harris at the hearings saying that he "supposed" (or some such word) that he killed the Marshall.

I think that the Senators accepted the statement without comment. It reminds me now, in view of what I just learned, of Josh Steiner -- the Clinton Treasury chief of staff at the time of the RTC hearings. Steiner essentially told the Senate committee he had lied to his diary. Sen. Paul Sarbanes (D-Md.) was doing the questioning at the time. I'll never forget the Senator's stare but after a long silence he moved on.

IOW, friendly fire? What friendly fire? Harris said he did it. Let's move on.

[amchugh]

Ruby Ridge happened under the Bush administration. Waco happened under Clinton.

[amchugh]

Ruby Ridge -> Bush administration
Waco -> Clinton administration

[THEUPMAN]

if I were the sniper I would simply disregard the order and take what ever penalty would come my way. I can not see any set of circumstances that would warrant shooting an unarmed civilian holding a child. None whatsoever. Not in a military situation, not in a civilian situation. That sniper and every LEO officer above him responsible for giving that order should be tried and convicted of manslaughter at the very least.


Bravo ...
Well said.
Some people would have no problem turning on the gas , or lighting the fires .
People must be held accountable for their actions. Today we have to many instances of abuse that are covered by the "color of law".

[DainBramage]

You mean Bo Gritz the whitesupremicist nut. The Bible thumping quadruple divorcee? The Jew hater? The Aryan Nation hero? David Duke dubb? Weaver was cutting off shotguns and selling them to Ayan brotherhood members. He was no hero.

[DainBramage]

Defending the Aryan Brotherhood is not defending America.

[taxed2death]

"In effect Horrachie was part of an FBI SWAT team. Discipline must be 100% and orders obeyed instantly. In the field they would not have the luxury of second guessing their commanders. If Horrachie had the luxury of analyzing the situation, the legality of the rules of engagement, the circumstances under which the FBI agent was killed he would probably not have pulled the trigger. The members of the SWAT team must have faith in their commanders and the judgement of their commanders. If they do not have this faith it is no longer a team and becomes a bunch of men with guns trying to do a job and without a plan or leadership. In this case their faith was misplaced. Yes, cold blooded murder occurred that day. The murderer was not Horrachie but his commanders."


Total unadulterated bs. Every word.

Stop by any PROFESSIONAL LEO agency and run that load of crap by them and they'll laugh at you.

[Jeff Head]

No, I mean Bo Gritz, a highly decorated Special Forces officer who negotiatied the end to the standoff and probably saved the lives of Weaver, Harris, and Weaver's other children. Say whatever else you will to try and smear the man, that is what he did, and he does have the expertise in the fire fight scenario to describe it just as he did, whether you agree with it or not is immaterial.

You seem to be able to do nothing but attack and defame. You have not answered or refuted one thing other than try and smear the name of the people who were there, or who have talkled to the people who were there in an effort to downplay and deflect the facts of what happened which you either clearly have little knowledge of, or are intent on distorting it for whatever reason.

Well, the fact were, Weaver and Harris were found not guilty and then the government paid millions in a wronggful death seeltement. What happened to Weaver and his family was a travesty and it was not one of his making. The fact is the undercover agent created the crime and entraped a man never convicted of any crime into selling him a shotgun and then cutting it off 1/4" beyond the limit which the supposed individual working for law enforcement knew, and instructed him on how to get it done...and all to try and force Weaver into going under-cover. Sorry, but most Americans, including the jury, saw that for what it was.

I have laid the facts on this thread and I am satisfied with that. Whether you recognize it or not, your continued attitude and remarks are only serving from my perspective (and I feel from most people who will read this) to reinforce those facts...so I weclome you to continue bumping the thread and doing that for all its worth.

Refer back to this post for any further vitriol or distortions.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

To all critics of this unconventional American family

Mysteries of life. Prior to suburban conventional, bourgeois lives how were there great Americans? It was all a lie. It took Main Street to make it happen. Right?

What effect would be had there been no entrapment, no notice? No harm, not a damn bit. I cannot prove it, you cannot prove otherwise.

I remember another "Weaver" family.

Also migrants to the northwest; not of conventional, bourgeois lives. Entrapped by different means and noticed.

Also hated. Go figure.

"Damn them!" screamed many of America's best.

Circumstance there too made the family widely known and hated, featured an armed standoff between the children and LEO (Crucify the parents!).

BTW, the children were unharmed, the LEOs were local where citizens are flesh and bones, not images from a focus group projection booth.

[JamesP81]

I am LEO myself and I think that FBI dude is lower than whale snot.

That's because you got common sense, good sir. My comment shouldn't be taken as a slander against law enforcement folks in general, but like any group of people, some people in law enforcement are the best, and some aren't. It's good for folks to be able to know the difference.

[Palladin]

A bump for the truth...

[brazzaville]

Kiss my arse, bozo.

What's the matter, can't you handle being told that you don't know what you are talking about. You should leave if it bothers you so much that you need to start insulting people.

Michael Frazier

[brazzaville]

Good morning.
"What's confusing is the that they couldn't tie the bullet to a Marshall's gun."

Considering all that was going down, would we have been allowed to know if they had matched the bullet?

Michael Frazier

[brazzaville]

Good morning.
"I was questioning the veracity of the story and the encounter with the LEOs."

I understood your position and I was just providing an explanation.

This event left a festering wound on the nation. The heat of the discussion here shows that the wound hasn't healed.

Michael Frazier

[brazzaville]

Good morning.
"...they knew that they always came out when the dog barked."

That's a point that can't be stressed enough. The Marshals had already been surveilling the cabin for a long time before the initial shootout. They knew how the Weavers lived, how they moved about and how they were likely to respond to different situations.

Michael Frazier

[ozzymandus]

You're really falling apart, aren't you? Instead of lying that you don't know who lon horiuchi is, and bashing war hero Bo Gritz, and lying that Weaver sold guns to the aryan nation (They were cops, who insisted that Weaver saw off the barrels to an illegal length), and making up death threats, why don't you admit you're a lying POS?

[Centurion2000]

I agree that assault was completely overdone and mismanaged, but in the end Randy Weaver shoulders full responsibility

Bullshi'ite ... F Troop started it all over 1/4" of wood on the stock and a 200 dollar tax.

[Jeff Head]

Read posts 297 and 310 for a lot more info from those who wer eon scene and from the trial.

It was a shameful travesty and atrocity. The perpetrators have never been held to account.

[Jeff Head]

Read posts 297 and 310 for a lot more info from those who wer eon scene and from the trial.

It was a shameful travesty and atrocity. The perpetrators have never been held to account.