Posted on 03/17/2007 7:32:42 AM PDT by amchugh
This is one part of a five part series done for BBC Channel 4. It focusses on Ruby Ridge and the Weaver family, with some digression into seperatists, conspiracy theorists, etc...
Sounds like a good time to give it up unless you're into a death by cop mode.
Why not a least watch it and then make your judgement?
>>>Nice job getting your whole family killed to satisfy your ego.<<<
I take it you support the Gestapo tactics of the government in the Ruby Ridge Massacre?
Seems that the FBI personnel should have served 18 months and at least a $10,000 fine. Not the other way around.
No basically I think it was murder but I also think Weaver knew where resistance would ultimately lead and he took his family into it.
You said earlier that you watched the hearings. You don't recall the fallout from the hearings? The money paid to Weaver survivors? The sickening "shoot on site" orders -- how could he surrender until a third party agreed to stand between him and the feds?
Then there were investigations that exposed wrong doing by FBI personnel, see my reply #116 if you please.
I don't recall any testimony that gun battles took place between Mr. Weaver and the federal agents. Mr. Weaver couldn't even remove his wife's body to a separate building where is son's body was.
What "trouble" did Mr. Weaver give to the federal agents? IMO, it was the exposure of FBI incompetence and arrogance for the whole Nation and world to see.
"I have no regrets. They came up that mountain looking for trouble and they found it"
Doesn't that say it all?
I'm pretty sure that he was promoted, and went on to even greater glory at Waco, believe it or not, iirc from a US documentary piece on Ruby Ridge.
I do remember the robot the FBI sent with a phone to Weaver also had a shotgun attachment affixed. "It was unfortunate the we didn't take that off before we sent it up. Leaving it on might have hurt our credibility with Mr. Weaver when we were trying to negotiate..." said the ranking Senior Special Agent in Charge.
As I recall Mr. Weaver and his visitor had both been shot on sight. How were they to trust that anything would have prevented the federal agents from finishing the job on them? White flag? Sure.
Once a third party was there to guarantee safety he did surrender.
"how could he surrender until a third party agreed to stand between him and the feds?"
Simple, send them down the mountain. There's at least a chance for survival. Staying on the mountain was a death sentence for him and his family and he knew it.
GHW Bush was responsible for Ruby Ridge.
Clinton handled Waco.
Both were travesties.
>>>No basically I think it was murder but I also think Weaver knew where resistance would ultimately lead and he took his family into it.<<<
On what historical incidents did you base your conclusion?
Mr. Weaver had no idea that two U.S. Marshals would come up through the woods looking for him, shoot his dog, get into a gun battle with his son and a friend. . . .
This I don't remember for sure but I think maybe Mr. Weaver did not know that he'd missed the rescheduled court appearance -- but if I am wrong about that no one could have predicted the events of "Ruby Ridge."
How did Mr. Weaver know that he was under a death sentence? He was in trouble over a sawed-off shotgun and a missed court appearance, as I recall. Why send his family away over that?
LOL! The DOJ Ruby Ridge report...
Back about 1997 I got a softcopy of the report in plain text. Took me almost a day to convert it into a nice, formatted, indexed HTML version. My website was even quoted in the Ninth circuit State of Idaho vs. Horiuchi case.
All the versions of the indexed report I've ever seen on the web are ripoffs of my work, I really don't give a hoot, but wish they had at least given me credit...
Memories. The wife coming into my office saying "Dave, you're working way too much. Come to bed"
God I miss that woman.
Mr. Weaver had no idea that two U.S. Marshals would come up through the woods looking for him, shoot his dog, get into a gun battle with his son and a friend. . . .
This is wikipedia which I can't vouch for:
Rather than seek a legal means to solve his problems, the Weaver family mounted a letter-writing campaign against the FBI. In February 1991, Vicki mailed two angry letters to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boise. One was addressed to "The Queen of Babylon" and stated in part:
"A man cannot have two masters. Yahweh Yahshua Messiah, the anointed One of Saxon Israel is our law giver and our King. We will obey Him and no others ... a long forgotten wind is starting to blow. Do you hear the approaching thunder? It is that of the awakened Saxon. War is upon the land. The tyrants blood will flow."
The other letter, addressed to "Servant of the Queen of Babylon, Maurice O. Ellsworth, U.S. Attny." read:
"Yah-Yahshua the Messiah of Saxon Israel is our Advocate and our Judge. The stink of your lawless government has reached Heaven, the abode of Yahweh our Yahshua. Whether we live or whether we die, we will not bow to your evil commandments."
Sounds like a declaration of war by a lunatic to me. Maybe it was a much her fault as his but I'm pretty sure if she had never met him she would have led a pretty normal life.
"Simple, send them down the mountain. There's at least a chance for survival. Staying on the mountain was a death sentence for him and his family and he knew it."
That's right, send them down the mountain into the loving arms of the men who had already murdered his wife son and dog, shot him and shot his friend.
If you would do that to your family, then I pity your family. Hopefully you are a loner with no friends nor family. One thing for sure, when the going gets tough, (providing you have family) they can count on you to surrender them to the murderers.
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