Haditha Marines you can do so by going to these sites.
Posted on 03/14/2007 3:08:45 PM PDT by RedRover
An attorney representing the commander of the American troops involved in the so-called "Haditha massacre" says the military rules of engagement have become so subjective that troops must look over their shoulders before they can fight the enemy. Brian Rooney is with the Thomas More Law Center, which is representing Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey Chessani, a Marine officer charged with failing to investigate fully the events at Haditha, Al Anbar, Iraq and failing to report a Law of War violation.
Rooney says the Marines involved acted properly during the November 19, 2005, incident that led to the death of 15 Iraqi civilians. "If there's a hostile act against a Marine or hostile intent against a Marine, you can use deadly force to counter that hostile act or hostile intent," he explains.
But unfortunately, sometimes the determination "becomes subjective to who's observing it from the outside [as to] whether or not the Marines acted reasonably or not," the lawyer notes. In these instances, he says, it depends on who is doing the observing.
Ironically, Chessani had an attorney on the scene, who is also in trouble, as "he's been charged himself, Captain Stone, with dereliction of duty and -- I believe -- orders violations," Rooney points out. "So it's out for everybody, this politically charged investigation that has occurred," he says.
An Article 32 hearing for Colonel Chessani is scheduled for March 21. Rooney is confident his client did not do anything wrong. And it is unfair, the Law Center spokesman suggests, to try to judge the reasonableness of the Marines actions after the fact, removed from the context of the situation the soldiers faced in the Haditha incident.
One simply "can't do that," the attorney insists. "You have to go from the mindset of the Marine at the time, with what's going on," he says, "because, ultimately, you may end up killing civilians and you not mean it; but with what's going on in your mind at the time, you could be acting quite reasonably."
Rooney says the military's rules of engagement have become so subjective that it is increasingly difficult for troops to do their job in battle. The Thomas More Law Center , a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, announced March 6 that it would be defending Lieutenant Colonel Chessani against the military's charges in what has become a highly politically charged case.
Amen to your required corrective speach. This Freeper really needs to learn a little more about how things work and what has been accomplished over the past five years plus.
Wish that excuse had worked whenever the IG was in town.
True, but he should find time to fix the ROE. He is the boss.
"He cannot micromanage the bureaucracy that thrives within the military (and it most certainly does). He can't wish it away....."
As I remember, an officer can be asked to resign his commission. Bush would be well advised to do this to a substantial number of JAGs ASAP, starting with the top of the JAG administration and simply RIFF at least 50%.
After all, he is a Pubbie and supposedly wants to see a smaller number of people working (if one may use the term loosely) for government.
Hiya, pink! It's great that the people at Thomas More are spreading the word in the Christian media!
If the incident did not happen as the terrorist-sympathizers say it did, the reports were not false. Why is that so hard to understand?
The same kind of SH#T that our troops in Iraq faced when they captured Iranian bastards and had to let them go (the catch-and-release BS). May those responsible burn in hell.
Sometimes I think what the World would be like if Lt Calley was now a respected US Senator and John Kerry was a disgraced nobody instead of how things is now.
terrorist sympathizers have nothing to do with this. SSgt Frank Wuterich filed a false field report that said the folks in the houses were killed by the IED that killed Lance Cpl Miguel Terrazas. Cpt Luke McConnell filed a report supporting that claim and a false press release was issued regarding the incident, because of those actions. LtCol Chessani failed to investigate and clear up the matter. That's what he's being charged with.
"Aren't the guy that said the Marine Corps saved Lt. Pantano? Talk about being without a clue!"
I said the NCIS investigators cleared him and Maj Gen Huck decided the allegations were groundless and caused the matter to be dropped. Next itme I give you specific details and the relevant facts of the matter, GET A CLUE!
By and large the ROE are fine. It is the bureaucracy of the JAGS/NCIS that comes in and causes problems where there should be none....More often then not (trying to look important and stay relevant).
At this point it is not as if the CINC can come in and micromanage ROEs either. Or issue a blanket command that all weapon discharges will be considered lawful by all U.S. soldiers. That just isn't practical.
As CINC GWB (and Fmr SecDef Rumsfeld) have done a great deal to allow our warriors to take the fight to our enemies. By as hostile of means possible. However there is a process within the military itself that creates the bureaucracy beast we all see at times today....where foolish charges are brought against good men.
The reason that ROE's aren't revised to suit the environment, IMHO, is beacuse advancement is tied to consistent sucess, with no flexibility in today's military for occasional failure. Lawyers are everywhere.
Nimitz would never have gotten past Luitenant, he ran aground.
Patten, and his mouth, would have been stuck in an Admin office, or drummed out completely prior to leading a single troop
Look at McArthur....
No. Today's Mid grade to Senior officers are expected to blow sunshine up everyones ass, all the time. "How are things in the field "Luitenant?" Answer, "Great, General. We're kickin ass!" No mention of the fact the good LT and his crew were sent across a killing zone to water down some Flag's running track because it was too dusty, and all because the CO wanted to "score points".
If you screw up, many (not all) senior officers will run as fast from you as they would a stinking pile of sh.. Misatkes are not allowed. Telling a Flag Officer who wants to become the next JCS, that their ideas may stink is even less popular. So, they shut up and sing, per say. They keep thier fingers tightly crossed, hoping that they can lie low, and stay out of trouble.
Then Haditha happens, and nobody knows nutin. All the lawyers say "We told'em not to do that" CYA.
I'm not baggin on the military here. I speak from experience, although not as a Senior Officer. There is a perfection mindset in the military that believes any idea that comes down the pike must be made to work, no matter how ridiculous. ROE's that seem looney, are rarely complained about in the staff office. Wouldn't want to be labled a whiner!
This needs to change. We need a Patton. Too bad they already RIF'ed anyone that fit the bill.
Franken Monkey that is one of the best ideas I have heard yet. Hopefully the attorneys will have some videos from the "restive town" of Haditha during prior "civilian" activities (i.e. IED planting) to present to the judge.
You're wrong and all caps won't make you right.
You obviously missed this thread: An Honest Investigation Would Have Cleared Lieutenant Pantano in Iraq.
I missed nothing. NCIS work cleared Pantano. NCIS made it clear that the allegations were groundless. The hearsay and irrelevant evidence presented on that thread amount to nothing. Sgt Coburn brought the charges against his lieutenant and the corps could not overlook that w/o a trial, which Lt Pantano demanded.
"You're wrong"
Whatever.
thanks for clearing that up...
"The rules of engagement are irrelevant here."
The ROE are quite relevant, here. The four Marines charged with murder are not charged with falsifying claims, they are charged with murder, or not adhering to proper ROE's at the time, for this incident.
Beyond the fact that the ROE's used in Haditha was put under question at the time charges were preferred, the aftermath of Haditha has further affected current ROE's. To further protect themselves from charges, currently, Marines in Haditha have even taken to wearing video helmet cams to provide backup that they are following ROE's should an "incident" occur. See following link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1794712/posts
ROE's are VERY relevant.
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but does JAG office come under some form of review that can fire/retire/ask to resign at the discretion of the CIC or Admiral/General in charge? Or is it more of a civil service post that requires multiple levels of paper in order to remove somebody.
I've never really understood the machinations of the legal profession as it pertains to the Armed Forces other than to avoid by flying as low as possible under the radar and sneaky counts as much as purity.
Falsifying their field reports is evidence they knew they did something wrong and attempted to cover it up.
This thread however, involves Lt Col Chessani, who failed to investigate the incident and cause behind hte filing of the false field reports that resulted in the issuance of a false press release.
Where in the charges does it say the four Marines charged with murder falsified their field reports?
Thanks
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