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Romney says government was wrong in Schiavo case
St. Petersburg Times ^ | March 11, 2007 | Adam C. Smith

Posted on 03/11/2007 7:40:49 PM PDT by EternalVigilance

TAMPA -- He's campaigning hard for support from Republican social conservatives, but presidential candidate Mitt Romney said Saturday he disagreed with the government's intervention in the Terri Schiavo case.

"I think it's probably best to leave these kinds of matters in the hands of the courts," Romney said in a television interview airing today.

(Excerpt) Read more at orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: electionpresident; elections; euthanasia; judicialtyranny; moralabsolutes; romney; romneyschiavo; schiavo; shiavo; terri; terrischiavo
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To: pillut48

I saw the videos. Was not convinced. The autopsy was difinitive and not subjective at all. She was completely brain dead without equivocation.


541 posted on 03/12/2007 12:56:28 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior and Founding Member of Darwin Central)
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To: RadioAstronomer
She was completely brain dead without equivocation.

Your premise is destroyed by the fact that she breathed on her own. Braindead people don't breath on their own, sir.

542 posted on 03/12/2007 1:01:52 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The 4000 American kids who are being aborted today need an Abe Lincoln, not a Stephen Douglas...)
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To: RadioAstronomer

I had a long conversation with one of Terri's nurses.

Terri responded to those in her room. Brightened up when they came in. Reacted to their jokes.

I'll take the word of those who were present as opposed to your cold, heartless assessment from a distance any day.


543 posted on 03/12/2007 1:04:40 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The 4000 American kids who are being aborted today need an Abe Lincoln, not a Stephen Douglas...)
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To: retMD
As to "relative preservation" yes, as 50% is more than 10%, for example."

To quote the autopsy report: "The frontal temporal and temporal poles and insular-cortex demonstrated relative preservation." The key word here is preservation, as opposed to deterioration. To borrow your arbitrary percentages, this indicates a figure closer to 100% than 50%, as anything 50% or below would of course be described as significant deterioration, not relative preservation.

This raises doubts as to the claim Terri was PVS. There is nothing conclusive in the autopsy report to confirm PVS, as you know.

Even more notable from the report is that Terri was declared brain-injured, not brain-dead. She was killed by dehydration, by lack of care, not naturally from a terminal illness, and the medical examiner stated that she was healthy enough to easily have lived another 10 years.

It doesn't mean she had enough grey matter to function.

The key is, nothing proves that she didn't have the mental capacity to function. It is possible she did, and yet the court refused to err on the side of life and stop her husband from seeking her death.

Please point me to a credible pathologist who disputes the cortical blindness.

Since no other pathologist but the two involved were allowed to participate in the autopsy, we must rely wholly on their claims of cortical blindness. The problem is, the finding of cortical blindness is meaningless without a timeframe from which to judge it.

It is possible that the dehydration, just as it caused shrinkage to her brain, contributed to the ultimate findings of her visual impairment.

Of the 40 doctors who claimed she was MCS rather than PVS how many actually examined her?

As stated in the autopsy report, the medical examiner could not rule out that Terri had some awareness, rather than PVS. That fact alone validates her parents' effort to prevent her ordered death.

Of those medical professionals who had observed Terri in person, the most notable was Dr. Hammesfahr. The following is his sworn affidavit, as presented before Congress:

There was absolutely no justification for killing this helpless human being, Terri Schiavo. She had a right to live.
544 posted on 03/12/2007 1:17:36 PM PDT by Gelato (... a liberal is a liberal is a liberal ...)
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To: EternalVigilance

Brain stem functions - yes. Higher cognitive functions -no. For all intents and purposes non-recoverable brain death.


545 posted on 03/12/2007 1:21:26 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior and Founding Member of Darwin Central)
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To: EternalVigilance
I'll take the word of those who were present as opposed to your cold, heartless assessment from a distance any day.

The autopsy does not lie.

546 posted on 03/12/2007 1:22:19 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior and Founding Member of Darwin Central)
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To: voltaires_zit

Actually, it was Michael Shiavo and company who looked for and found an activist judge. And by changing the law midstream, they got the Florida legisalture to do their bidding.


547 posted on 03/12/2007 2:12:46 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Guiliani is a Democrat in Republican drag.)
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To: Swordfished
Not my quote, swordfished. It was don-o's. Nice try though.

You don't have to answer a question because someone asked it, btw.

548 posted on 03/12/2007 2:16:43 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Guiliani is a Democrat in Republican drag.)
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To: RadioAstronomer
>> It was not murder.

Would you at least agree to involuntary confinement and grand larceny? The murderer(s) kept Terri Schiavo locked up for years and stole most of her trust fund. Then they tortured her to death.

549 posted on 03/12/2007 2:27:54 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
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To: TAdams8591

An interesting take, but one that doesn't jibe terribly well with reality as perceived by most folk.

Ms Schiavo's case was through the hands of many judges over an extended period of time. Some of them just ruled on procedural matters, some of them reviewed the entire case. All of them came to the same conclusion.

So then some folk decided to change the law, just for this one case, so that even MORE judges would get involved, hoping to find the one needle in the haystack that would agree with them. They never did find one.

Why do you suppose that is, if activist judges are so common?


550 posted on 03/12/2007 2:28:10 PM PDT by voltaires_zit (Government is the problem, not the answer.)
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To: Rome2000

I agree.


551 posted on 03/12/2007 2:35:29 PM PDT by sport
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To: sport

You agree with that vile post?


552 posted on 03/12/2007 2:38:27 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior and Founding Member of Darwin Central)
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To: voltaires_zit
"through the hands of many judges over an extended period of time."

Until it reached the right activist judge, Judge George Greer. Terri Schindler's case was under his control for quite awhile. Not a good idea, btw, to give such cases to Probate Judges who generally decide upon the distribution of wealth and property. People are neither.

I could care less whether or not the side I took in the Schindler matter is supported by a majority or a minority. Once upon a time most people thought there was nothing wrong with slavery, either.

553 posted on 03/12/2007 3:18:43 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Guiliani is a Democrat in Republican drag.)
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To: T'wit
The Florida government got involved at Michael Schiavo's own invitation in 1998. It was seven years later, one week before Terri's death at the hands of state government, that the feds reacted. Their intervention had no effect whatever on the case.

This was not a government murder. It was a family argument over what the patient's end-of-life wishes were. The state courts were the appropriate place to resolve that. It should have gone no further.

That said, it still misses my central point that, whatever the issues of the Schiavo case were, No One Should Wish Death On Someone's Child For The Parent's Political Views!

554 posted on 03/12/2007 3:23:22 PM PDT by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: RadioAstronomer

I do. From your post it appears to me as if you think it is o.k to starve someone to death. But when your logic is applied to a member of your family, it is vile.

If it is wrong to starve a member of your family, it is wrong to starve anyone else.


555 posted on 03/12/2007 3:26:45 PM PDT by sport
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To: RadioAstronomer
>> The autopsy does not lie.

Did you read it? It didn't say anything about her being "brain dead," as you put it. She was never diagnosed as brain dead, either in life or post-mortem. In fact, Dr. Nelson, the brain specialist assisting Dr. Thogmartin in the autopsy, was asked if his findings ruled out Terri interacting with her family as seen in several videos. "No," he replied.

The autopsy report did, however, destroy Michael's one thin alibi for once and for all. Terri did not "collapse" due to "bulimia." So now we are back to square one. How did Terri, healthy and asleep, end up face down on a hallway floor, in cardiac arrest, making gurgling noises, unresponsive and barely clinging to life, right after her husband got home late one Saturday night?

556 posted on 03/12/2007 3:30:32 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
>> Why wouldn't you need something in writing before you could take someone else's life?

You mean it isn't enough to ask the killer, his brother and his sister-in-law? I am shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you.

557 posted on 03/12/2007 3:33:04 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
>> It was a family argument over what the patient's end-of-life wishes were.

So it's OK for a husband to kill his wife if he wins the argument?

It was not an end-of-life case, btw. Terri was not dying. She was not even ill. Her heart was healthy and strong. She had never had a heart attack. The coroner said she would have lived ten years or more if she hadn't been dehydrated and starved to death.

558 posted on 03/12/2007 3:39:09 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
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To: EternalVigilance

EV, May I just send you the biggest hug across the miles for understanding this whole mess??? :*)


559 posted on 03/12/2007 3:44:12 PM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX (Bible Thumper and Proud!))
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
>> This was not a government murder.

Actually it was. Even if we grant the state full power to grant an incompetent person a right to kill himself by refusing medical care, Judge Greer overreached and issued an order that Terri could not be fed or hydrated orally. This was ultra vires. In effect, he ordered her to be dead. He may have had lawful authority to allow her to die, but he certainly had no legal authority to kill her.

560 posted on 03/12/2007 3:54:19 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
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