PING – Hugo is at it again!
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HugoPing Archive
Posted on 03/11/2007 12:35:47 PM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
The President of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, on a tour of Latin America, has launched a stinging attack on the US. Visiting Bolivia, the firebrand leftist leader said that capitalism was "the road to hell". Mr Chavez underlined the billions of dollars of aid Venezuela is ploughing into Bolivia's economy at a time when the US is reducing its contributions.
US President George W Bush has avoided discussing his rival's regional trip during his own visit to Latin America.
Heaven and earth
"Those who want to go directly to hell, they can follow capitalism," Mr Chavez said in the town of Trinidad in Bolivia.
"And those of us who want to build heaven here on earth, we will follow socialism," he added.
Recent floods in the town left thousands of homeless and their livestock drowned.Venezuela's aid package of $15m (11.4m euros) outweighed the sum offered by the US tenfold.The country also sent in aid workers who attended their president's speech on the airport runway. During his visit, Mr Chavez also pledged more than $1bn (£0.5bn; 0.76bn euros) for oil projects and community radio stations in the country.
Mr Bush spent Saturday in Uruguay where he spoke of the US care for the "human condition" and its "quiet, effective diplomacy".
Rural retreat
He defended capitalism, saying one way to lift people out of poverty was to encourage investment.
"I would call our diplomacy quiet and effective...aimed at helping people, elevating the human condition, aimed at expressing the great compassion of the American people," he said.
Mr Bush (right) said Americans cared about the human condition. The US president has pointedly refused to directly respond to Mr Chavez's comments as they make parallel tours of the region.
Mr Bush's presence in Latin American states has been met with protests and marches, some of which have turned violent. About 20 people were arrested in the Uruguayan capital Montevideo on Friday after an estimated 6,000 people took to the streets.
On Saturday, Mr Bush avoided the crowds by meeting the president at his rural retreat some 125miles (200km) west of the capital. Mr Bush is heading to Colombia on Sunday where he will meet the region's most loyal ally, President Alvaro Uribe, followed by Guatemala and Mexico.
There are about 22,000 members of the security forces posted around Bogota in preparation for Mr Bush's arrival in the Colombian capital.
Mr Chavez, meanwhile, travels on to Nicaragua.
Hugo Chavez/Venezuela Ping
Latin American Left Ping
The numbers for the USSR range from 20 million to as high as 50 million depending on who is included in Soviet butchery.
i think parrot-boy's ego is writing checks he won't be able to cash. sadly, when this is all said and done, Venezuela is going to be basket case.
I think the Bozo The Clown theme song should be brought up any time this thug opens his mouth Man, when is Venezuela's military going to get restless?
I'm glad the Beeb let us know how badly we were stung by this attack...we didn't feel a thing!
Well he said:
"And those of us who want to build heaven here on earth, we will follow socialism"
So that right there gives him 1000% credibility with Dimocrats.
"I really really want someone to put this creature out of its misery."
Why? There's so much less freedom in Venezuela than your hero Hu grants to the Chinese? No. But let's go after Chavez for his political sins while you ignore the much worse sins of Hu.
Again, from zook, personalities over principles.
"Again, from zook, personalities over principles."
There's a principal at work that you don't understand, Wuli (no surprise, there). One nation, Venezuela, is moving toward totalitarianism, the other, China, has been moving away from it for over two decades.
"There's a principal at work that you don't understand, Wuli (no surprise, there). One nation, Venezuela, is moving toward totalitarianism, the other, China, has been moving away from it for over two decades."
That is a distinction without a difference, because the "moving away" in China is illusory. It has no foundation in actual rights or actions of individuals that are founded in rights or any democratic process to achieve those rights or secure them.
In fact, Hu and China are much worse because we have very little deception in what Chavez is doing while the economic smoke-and-mirrors of China's state-capitalism is a deception that succeeds in actually strengthening the totalitarian control in China; while the Shanghai shopping mall mentality is given more goodies in the economic circus they are distracted with.
As you proved in the other thread, you are unwilling to accept the obvious changes that have occured and are still taking place in China. There is no need for you and I to discuss this further.
As you proved in the other thread, you are unwilling to accept the obvious fact that the "changes" you refer to have nothing to do with rights, any foundational guarantee of rights, true freedom or democracy. There is no need for you to discuss this any longer.
Who is listening to this fool? How could anyone take this guy seriously? He's a joke.
You are absolutely crazy. If you were black, you'd be selling either "Streetwise" or "Muhammad Speaks" on urban street corners. I'm certain you'd be beating your children if you had the balls to have any. You go around telling your friends you've invented a perpetual motion machine and that the CIA planted a radio in your head.
Now that I've clarified all that, let me repeat that whether or not China decides to enshrine the rights of its citizens to your satisfaction has not one iota to do with the fact that China has liberalized its society over the past 25 years.
For those reading this who think I might be unduly harsh on Wuli, believe me, I'm not. He deserves every bit and more.
Our media, and the American leftards seem to love him though.
That's true.
Again, you demonstrate you do not know the meaning of the things of which you speak.
China "has liberalized" one thing and one thing alone, about "its society" over the past 25 years - the economic PRIVILEGES a dictatorship ALLOWS its citizens to enjoy.
None of those things are rights. None of those things have any foundation in rights that the dictators believe the citizens hold, against their power to say otherwise. Those are facts, not your myths, not the appearances presented by commerce that remains conducted with no fundamental change of who decides and how it is decided as to what of that commerce is and is not an allowed privilege. It remains a dictators revokable privilege; nothing more.
None of those things have any foundation in any guarantee that those privileges cannot be withheld, at will, whenever the dictatorship choses to withhold them; as it does across the country on a daily basis, whenever it choses to, without legal recourse by anyone. Facts, not myths, not the appearances of things that have no guarantees.
None of those privileges are derived from or are modifiable, or secured by any "democratic" process, freely exercised by the people, and outside of the control of the Communist Party. Facts, not myths, not appearances.
None of those privileges can be secured in any Chinese court against the will of the Communist Party of China, whether or not a publicly issued regulation by the party or the government says otherwise; whenever denying any of those privileges suits the interests of the government or the party. Facts, not myths about "change".
Beyond those privileges readily revoked at will by the dictatorship, there are no changes in any guaranteed rights or democratic process to obtain, secure and hold those rights. Beyond those mere economic privileges, the manner of, the formation of, the structure of and the conduct of the government of China is as totalitarian as ever. The dictatorship makes all decisions against which the people have no say. What you call change remains nothing more than the benevolence of new privileges allowed by the dictators.
Shopping malls, with worldwide distributed goods and worldwide distribution of the production of goods do not define freedom, rights or democracy and neither of those three things have achieved any foundational change in China; regardless of mere economic appearances.
It is no surprise to me that you cannot make the fundamental distinctions between totalitarian governments and rights, freedoms and democracy. All the fancy glitter of the economic baubbles just distract you from the underlying reality.
Your positions on domestic issues here often demonstrate that same shallow distraction of, and granting of, an importance to the appearance of things. You can't see past the appearances so the fundamentals seem to have little relevance to you. But it is fundamental values, or the lack of them, that define you. In your case, the lack.
From the lack of your support for fundamental values above appearances, one would have to assume that if Americans had only all that the Chinese people have, they ought to then feel just as privileged as the Chinese. Sorry, we don't and therefore we see what are appearances in China and what is fundamentally unchanged, because we are not distracted by those appearances. You are.
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