New York Label May Not Fit All in Giuliani Run

NY Times ^ | March 8, 2007 | ADAM NAGOURNEY

[neverdem]

WASHINGTON, March 7 — When Republicans say they are skeptical that Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, can survive their party’s presidential nominating process, they usually point to his record of support for abortion rights, gay rights and gun control.

But there may be a less obvious hurdle that Mr. Giuliani has to overcome: Whether he is too much of a New Yorker for the rest of the country.

Americans like New York City, as officials in both parties are quick to say. Most find it vibrant, entertaining and an object of sympathy and pride since the terrorist attacks five and a half years ago that made Mr. Giuliani the national contender he is today.

But the city, with all its tumult and rough edges, is not for everyone. And few people embody all the complicated facets of New York City as much as Mr. Giuliani.

He is swaggering, brash and opinionated and loves to stick his thumb in the eye of conventional political norms. Those traits won him some acclaim in New York, not to mention a lot of tabloid headlines. But he can also be temperamental, controlling, capricious, volatile and, in the words of Edward I. Koch, a former Democratic mayor who supported Mr. Giuliani in his successful bid for a second term, “mean-spirited.”

New Yorkers who elected him twice as their mayor tend to view what others might call rudeness as an endearing trait. But beyond conservative unease with his positions on social issues, two of the biggest questions about Mr. Giuliani’s presidential campaign are whether the same qualities that made him iconic in New York will play as well in the rest of the country, and whether voters elsewhere will exhibit the same tolerance as New Yorkers did toward the more colorful aspects...

[Condor51]

Americans like New York City...

Uh NO 'we' Americans don't.
And you've apparently spent waaaay too much time in New York City Sparky.

• Most Americans view NYC as Sodom and Gomorrah rolled into one.
  
• Most Americans detest NYC and it's 'me', 'me' attitude.
  
• Most Americans detest New Yorkers and view them as arrogant, elitist, know-it-all, asshats. (see; Chuckie Schumer, Bloomberg, Trump, Rangel, Weiner, and Rudy).
  
• And Adam, remember when Gerry Ford said to NYC - 'Screw You'? Well bunky most Americans said or felt that too, and raised a cheer for Ford.

The basic problem is that New Yorkers (98%) have this perverted idea that the Sun rises and sets on Times Square and that if it's good for NYC it's good for the USA (hi Rudy). That attitude is proved right here on FR by the Rudy rooters from NYC -- Oh Rudy cleaned up Times Square, he'll clean up America. Rudy threw Arafat out of NYC so he'll kill all the terrorists. Rudy did 'this' in NYC so he'll do 'that' as POTUS.

Well HORSES**T... that just ain't so. What's good for NYC is anathema for and/or in the rest of America. And that's a fact, jack.

Growing up on the SW Side of Chicago in the 50's and 60's, there were three basic things we were taught to 'hate' (dislike, detest, loathe, etc.).

1. the New York Yankees
   
2. New York City
   
3. the Cubs

However now in my older years my animus towards the Cubs has wained. If they win I'm happy for them, but I still say screw you to NYC - and Rudy with his NYC know-it-all arrogant, attitude. Furthermore, Rudy was never 'my Mayor' - period, end, stop.

~~ NYC rant OFF ~~

[jmc813]

I imagine that supporters of every candidate out there thinks the same thing.

I don't think the Rudy people think that, say, Duncan Hunter would ruin this country.

[MEGoody]

He's now "America's Mayor," not "New York's Mayor."

He's not my mayor. ;)

[flashbunny]

"New York is too big and encompasses too much to be brushed off as "liberal". Eight million people live in the city and 17 million in the metro area"

Rudy won is last election in new york with 615,829 votes. Out of how man million there, you say? So less than 10% of the people in the city actually voted for him last time aroudn? That hardly makes him "america's mayor", no matter what you or oprah might say.

"Get down off of your high horse. I know a leader when I see one, and Rudy is it."

Take off your rose colored glasses. I know a liberal when I see one. Rudy is it.

You're from new york. You likely lean left. Maybe rudy is the most "conservative" candidate you'd be comfortable with. But the problem comes when you try to foist your new york liberal republican on the rest of the country. For example, in TN some democrat state politicians are introducing a pro-gun 'castle doctrine'. Democrats that are pro gun. How do you think those voters are going to react to a republican who wants to take their guns away?

If you love rudy so much, keep him in new york.

[ElkGroveDan]

Doesn't make political sense to me if he's really a died in the wool liberal as some claim.

The GOP is full of died in the wool liberals. Rudy is not the first, nor will he be the last. That's why we all need to remain vigilant.

[CWOJackson]

"There you go again. You always rant against conservatives like Gingrich, Hunter and Tancredo while at the same time cheerleading for leftist republicans. It's quite sad."

LOL! I wish I could take the credit for your angst but unfortunately I didn't vote at CPAC...it was the conservatives at CPAC who voted for the "leftist" Guliani above Gingrich, Hunter and Tancredo.

[CWOJackson]

"I don't think the Rudy people think that, say, Duncan Hunter would ruin this country."

As President he would probably do no more harm the my personal favorite, Mike Pence. Where he would cause harm is as the nominee.

The vast majority of the voting public is not going to take the time to learn about the qualifications of an unknown Congressman; it would take time away form American Idol.

The mainstream media isn't going to educate the public on who this unknown Congressman is; it's to no advantage for them and besides, they're ratings driven. The average viewer wants to know the latest on someone they already know and whether Britney is wearing underwear today.

Hell, even so-called conservative commentators aren't going to do much to educate their audiences on who some unknown Congressman is. Do you expect Sean Vannity and Bill O'Really do waste good time they can use concentrating on Anna Nicole Smith or the latest cheerleader scandal?

So, you figure a way around the general election and no, Duncan Hinz might not be a threat to this nation.

[Bob J]

"Americans like New York City"

Spoken like a true New Yorker.

[neverdem]

Well HORSES**T... that just ain't so. What's good for NYC is anathema for and/or in the rest of America. And that's a fact, jack.

Growing up on the SW Side of Chicago in the 50's and 60's, there were three basic things we were taught to 'hate' (dislike, detest, loathe, etc.).

the New York Yankees

New York City

the Cubs

However now in my older years my animus towards the Cubs has wained. If they win I'm happy for them, but I still say screw you to NYC - and Rudy with his NYC know-it-all arrogant, attitude. Furthermore, Rudy was never 'my Mayor' - period, end, stop.

~~ NYC rant OFF ~~

Now I think you can understand how the rest of the world feels about the USA.

[KDD]

Now I think you can understand how the rest of the world feels about the USA.

Now that is a perfect example of how New York liberals think.

Your ugly overcrowded city is more representative of many of the worlds ratholes then it is of the biggest portion of American cities. In the South we don't give much of a damn what the rest of the world(ala the UN)think about us. The only thing we might give less of a damn about is what New Yorkers think...about anything.

[Sun]

In addition to Rudy's lib positions, I don't really have so much confidence about Rudy fighting the war on terror, when he is for open borders.

Three of the 9/11 terrorists were ILLEGAL, and I've seen pictures of al Queda passing off as Mexicans.

[Sun]

"As opposed to those flaming liberals at CPAC who gave Guliani most of their votes?"

I don't think Rudy came in first, seems it was Romney, but correct me with a link if Im wrong, AND around 75% of the voters were under 25 years of age, and not at experienced in doing research, and many of them might have been bussed in as there was a large group of young people wearing the same "uniform" - showing they were from the same college.

There was a poll taken on TomDeLay.com that has since expired and DUNCAN HUNTER was WAY ahead of everyone else:

I copied the poll, and here it is:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/cgi/view/results.cgi?username=aaron49erz&id=10101&Vote=58177

Which Potential Republican Presidential Candidate would you be most apt to Categorize as a True Conservative?

Rudy Giuliani 10%

John McCain 3%

Mitt Romney 10%

Sam Brownback 8%

Tom Tancredo 17%

Mike Huckabee 7%

Jim Gilmore 5%

Duncan Hunter 38%

Tommy Thompson 2%

[Sun]

My bad, I just checked the poll again, and Duncan Hunter went up to 44%, and Rudy went down to 9%.

More and more people are realizing what a strong conservative DUNCAN HUNTER is.

[auto power]

Exactly....these anti-Rudy haters are getting really boring with their constant rhetoric of showing the same pictures over and over and over and over again....idiots all.

[CWOJackson]

You're right, at CPAC, which represents a cross selection of conservative Americans (not the narrow spectrum poll you later site), Guliani came in second behind Romney...but well ahead of Duncan Hinz, Newt, Tom Terrific, etc.

[Sun]

However, as I said in my previous post: "..around 75% of the voters were under 25 years of age, and not at experienced in doing research, and many of them might have been bussed in as there was a large group of young people wearing the same "uniform" - showing they were from the same college.

There was a poll taken on TomDeLay.com that has since expired and DUNCAN HUNTER was WAY ahead of everyone else:

I copied the poll, and here it is:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/cgi/view/results.cgi?username=aaron49erz&id=10101&Vote=58177"

The above poll shows how the more experienced conservatives voted at TomDelay.com

[CWOJackson]

Seems like those kids under 25 have their heads on straight to me. I think I'll accept those results as far more indicative of the average then a poll taken on a website with a very narrow spectrum participant...any day.

[Gondring]

The GOP is full of died in the wool liberals.

What an interesting mental image that conjures up!

[neverdem]

Now that is a perfect example of how New York liberals think.

No, it's an example of how anyone with at least a half a brain thinks. How does anyone with any degree of perception explain the viewpoints of others without trying on their shoes?

Your ugly overcrowded city is more representative of many of the worlds ratholes then it is of the biggest portion of American cities.

Big cities are big cities almost all of which are controlled by dems, Bloomberg, an otherwise almost lifelong dem, notwithstanding.

In the South we don't give much of a damn what the rest of the world(ala the UN)think about us. The only thing we might give less of a damn about is what New Yorkers think...about anything.

Please tell me how your animus against NYC is different from the animus of the Euroweenies or the Turd World to the USA? It's the same envy that explains the hatred of the NY Yankees or "Americas Team," the Dallas Cowboys. They are or were the biggest or baddest.

[KDD]

Envy?

That is a joke right? I live in an area of the US Gulf coast that is a favorite destination of snowbirds...and quite a few of them are New Yorkers. A lot of them retire here so I have had more then a passing acquaintance with some of them. Not all of them, but generally speaking, the people who visit here from NYC are the rudest, loudest, most demanding in a petty way people then any other of our visitors from anywhere else including Europe and Canada.

In short, they act like a people from an unarmed socialist state, and act like the New York way of doing things is the right way to do things.. Growing up in the South one learns a little respect for ones neighbor, if for no other reason then that he, like you and nearly everyone else is probably armed. In such an environment it is unwise to escalate petty differences.

New Yorkers are not accustomed to such restraint and it shows in their approach to other people.

I've been to NYC. Did you know that once you travel north of North Carolona you can begin to smell New York? It stinks up the entire NE U.S. coast.