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TEACHING THE GOP A LESSON: 4 Months On
Vanity | 3/7/2007 | Sam Paine

Posted on 03/07/2007 7:27:38 AM PST by sam_paine

November 7, 2006 - The American voters "revolted" and gave the Democrat Party control of Congress.

Four months out, what have the politicians and strategists learned?

Have they learned that "conservatism wins every time it's tried?"

Or have they learned that the right-wing coalition no longer holds enough votes for them to mount a successful campaign?

Did "staying home" send a message to politicians that got us better border security, less taxes, stronger military, less government control of schools...less abortion?

This thread, and subsequent "TEACHING THE GOP A LESSON" markers up until Nov 2008 should "log" as we go along just how well the politicians are (or are not) learning their lessons.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: conservatism; election; liberalism; teachingthegop
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To: sam_paine
They didn't learn a bloody thing. The GOP isn't called the Stupid Party for nothing.

The GOP is still moving towards the left - GOP leaders perceive that there are enough "moderate" and "independent" voters uncovered by the Democrats' leftward trek that the conservatives can be jettisoned. This is one reason that the conservatives are fighting so hard against Guiliani; if he becomes the nominee (much less the President) conservatives won't have a party home any more.

The GOP is, of course, ignoring the fact that they have to fight for these votes (they don't have to fight for conservative votes) and that the Democrats are willing to spend unlimited sums of taxpayer money to buy these votes, so they can outbid the GOP every time.
This means the GOP has to act like Democrats and buy the votes, or they have to appeal to something other than greed, which is too much like work.

In general, the GOP will likely continue its leftward march to irrelevance, since there is already a Party of the Left, the Democrats and a second one is not needed.

Here's hopin' I'm totally wrong.
21 posted on 03/07/2007 7:41:53 AM PST by Little Ray
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To: Dr. Frank fan

Read the news and you will see immigrations raids happening at businesses which is a crucial element in the fight since the employers are part of the problem. No jobs, no welfare, no reason to come here.


The Senate Republicans are showing some spine as the minority party. Now, the rules of the Senate are such that the minority can control the agenda but at least the Senate Repubs are no longer willing to bend over for Harry Reid any longer.


22 posted on 03/07/2007 7:42:46 AM PST by misterrob (Jack Bauer/Chuck Norris 2008)
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To: pgyanke
Many in the voting population, unfortunately, were not given someone to vote FOR... only AGAINST... again.

We have a winner-take-all electoral system. This naturally leads to an equilibrium wherein there are two dominant parties who compete for the marginal voter. In practice this means, as you know, that in almost all elections there will be at most two candidates with a nontrivial chance of winning. Thus, if you want to vote at all, your choice boils down to which of those two you would prefer to win and/or which of those two you would prefer not to win. Whether you liked it or not, one of those two candidates was (probably) going to win; if you sat out or voted third-party because you didn't like that you were "only" given someone to vote against, it's precisely as if you didn't vote at all. Does not voting at all make you feel like you had a better choice than if you had gone ahead and voted for some (R) you didn't like all that much?

Anyway, this is all an inevitable, predictable outcome of the fact that we have winner-take-all elections. By complaining that you were "only" given someone to vote against, you are complaining about this natural outcome of our electoral system. Are you advocating a switch to proportional-representation elections?

Polling and cajoling the true believers and politically active isn't where the answer lies. You can't win if you only get your true believers.

Neither can you win if the true believers engage in a masochistic, senseless "revolt" that accomplishes nothing.

Politics is basic marketing... you have to differentiate your product. Growing the size of government, expanding entitlements, shamnesty, laziness and a host of other issues hurt the GOP... not the activists who tried to send a message.

Come on. Both hurt the GOP. It's not either/or.

23 posted on 03/07/2007 7:45:29 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: sam_paine

It's way too early to tell whether the conservative will pay off. If the conservative movement can regroup and come up with a slate of candidates who are committed to the conservative cause, then it will have worked. The idea is not to teach the current GOP leadership a lesson, but to replace them with committed conservatives. This is a long term approach.


24 posted on 03/07/2007 7:45:57 AM PST by rob777 (Personal Responsibility is the Price of Freedom)
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To: sam_paine

Are you planning on starting a ping list for this discussion?


25 posted on 03/07/2007 7:46:11 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: Let's Roll
Unintended though it may have been, what the results of the last election taught ALL politicians is that American voters apparently want liberals in power.

Further still, we can all agree that the liberals ARE in charge now (Bush is having trouble even speaking up against global climate whatever.)

IF putting liberals in power is the best way to get the public on our side, then we should also see the liberal's popularity polls fade over the next months/quarters.

But in that this strategy didn't work very well over the 40 year Tip Oniell era....

26 posted on 03/07/2007 7:46:12 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine
What's important to ask about what the pols think THEY have learned. I think you're statement that the pols have learned "nothing" is unsupportable. At least the leftists have "learned" that the "American voters have spoken for change." Like it or not, that is certainly one result of the 2006 election.

Exactly. What the pols (left AND right, I would say) have "learned" is that the Iraq war was bad bad bad and they should badmouth it and distance themselves from it.

That's the "lesson" that true-blue conservatives "taught" the RINOs they hate so much: that they need to distance themselves from Bush and Iraq.

27 posted on 03/07/2007 7:47:23 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: P-40
[the phrase 'fiscal responsibility'] I'm hearing it quite a lot more.

That's great. You must be very happy!

28 posted on 03/07/2007 7:48:27 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: OB1kNOb
Not voting for a liberal candidate in a supposedly conservative party, does not constitute sitting out the election.

Absolutely, right to the point. I know many folk who could not stomach some of the Republican candidates in 2006, but none of whom were focused on teaching anyone a lesson. When you do not vote for someone who is not palatable, or actively work against someone who is not palatable, your primary purpose is serving your conscience. Your one vote is hardly seen as a teaching tool.

I realize that some career politicos see everything through very subjective eyes, and do not understand those who vote principle over job seeking. Yet, if they would look a bit closer, they might actually draw some more realistic conclusions. But that would be self-education!

Cheers!

Bill Flax

29 posted on 03/07/2007 7:49:00 AM PST by Ohioan
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To: misterrob
Read the news and you will see immigrations raids happening at businesses which is a crucial element in the fight since the employers are part of the problem.

This is because of Congress?

30 posted on 03/07/2007 7:49:17 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: The_Victor

I was just thinking of posting every month or so a set of stats (Pelosi pop ratings, spending vetoed, #'s of abortions...) That kind of thing.....something to measure the mood by.

I guess I could ping people that posted on previous threads?

Hadn't really thought of that.


31 posted on 03/07/2007 7:50:46 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: P-40

I hear very little of that, and nothing on securing the borders of the United States. Nor do I hear anything about deporting those here illegally.
Now as for repealing abortion or at least stopping partial birth murder?
There is a whole slew of conservative measures these RINOs ignore cept at election time.


32 posted on 03/07/2007 7:53:20 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: Dr. Frank fan
At the end of the day, the political parties have to DRAW people to their candidates, not just push them away from the alternative. That is what is missing in all of these hindsight looks at 2006. Stop berating those that "sat out". They didn't affect as much of the outcome as those that weren't drawn to a candidate. As you said, it's a numbers game. The GOP exemplified what they were accused of being by the Dems and the MSM, so they had no effective defense. They deserved to lose because they first lost their way as the governing party.
33 posted on 03/07/2007 7:53:34 AM PST by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: sam_paine

Well, I didn't sit out the election. But then, I had a true conservative to vote for: Duncan Hunter.

This doesn't mean that I wasn't heartily fed up with how much the Republicans didn't get done in the past 12 years and especially since Bush became president and they had all three houses of government.

What did we get? Two Supreme Court Justices - good thing.

Education bill crafted by Ted Kennedy.

No immigration bill.

Very little - and very late - border security.

No social security choices.

No school vouchers.

Ear marks from - ear to ear and then some.

Scandals one on top of the other. Scandals that Hastert and DeLay (himself part of the problem) knew about and did nothing. They all knew about Cunningham, Nye and the House page pusher.

Frist wouldn't push the button on making a final point that Supreme Court nominations shouldn't be fillibustered.

Couldn't get Bolton confirmed because of a REPUBLICAN senator.

Many conservative judicial nominees simply quit after years of not being given even a chance to come up for confirmation.

What's to vote for? Had Hunter not been my congressman - I might not have shown up at the polls. So, there - I said it.

Will I vote for Guiliani if he gets the nomination? Probably - but I would surely be wishing for somone I could really really support.

All in all, except for Bush's steadfast stance on the War - I'm heartily disappointed in him even though I worked in both his campaigns.

The last election I felt good about was 1994 - but the Republicans from Gingrich on down really mucked that up.


34 posted on 03/07/2007 7:53:39 AM PST by Basheva
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To: Dr. Frank fan; rob777

I hope that the dissension on these threads will be an indicator or reality.

There are really three outcomes:

1) Be more conservative. (We hope)
2) Run more liberal. (I'm afraid)
3) Chaos and disagreement on the right. (I expect)

I think, so far, #3 is proven day after day on FR in the internecine Rudy-vs-Hunter flamewars.

#2 -or- #3, IMO, are good for the leftists.


35 posted on 03/07/2007 7:54:42 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine

Well, here is what has happened to me. Don't know if other conservatives feel that way or not. I had just posted this on the Chuck Nagel - Impeachment coming thread.

"He and the other turncoats in our congress are the very reason I no longer contribute to the Republican Party. My money will never go to a Hagel, McCain, Lott, Snowe, Specter, Collins, or any of the others that decided to work against this administration instead of pushing through our agenda.

As far as I am concerned, we do not have ANY on our team in Washington other than the Bush administration.

What good did it do us to give the Republican Party money when it went to the likes of these weak turncoats?

I thought they were supposed to solve our problems, immigration, social security, etc., but all we get for our tax dollars are political maneuverings for their own gain, attacks against this president and his efforts to defend us, and we enabled them to socialize with their "friends across the aisle"-on our tax dollars and donations for the conservatives.

A bunch of political hacks - nothing more. Just seeking to get access to the "goodies" up there including the lifetime salary for doing absolutely nothing of any value.

I have really progressed from being willing to work and donate to absolutely giving up and giving it to the democrats. Apparently, that is the way our congress likes it, doing the bidding of the democrats."

I would suppose there are many others feeling as I do because all of the donation seekers mention they are hearing such from others. But, of course, nothing is done about it.


36 posted on 03/07/2007 7:56:09 AM PST by ClancyJ
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To: Joe Boucher
and nothing on securing the borders of the United States.

It is probably more of a general news item to those of us in the border states...but the immigration hearings are being held now and have been quite interesting so far. They are archived at c-span.org if you want to listen to them.
37 posted on 03/07/2007 7:57:40 AM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: Ohioan
Yet, if they would look a bit closer, they might actually draw some more realistic conclusions.

Perhaps I chose the title poorly. Whether it's "teaching the GOP" or "what the GOP learned" the intent is to figure out what the intentional or unintentional lessons learned are.

I think you're right about introspection, and that they will do it....except....that being creatures of incumbency...all they want to do is get reelected.....even the bright-eyed "Mr Smith goes to Washington types" have to contend with getting enough votes to get there and stay there.

And by that measure, what they are learning is that the Iraq war, social security, border security and tort reform are all high voltage do-not-touch issues.

38 posted on 03/07/2007 7:59:12 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: ClancyJ

President Bush championed some of those names on your list in their elections. Remember the Specter debacle in PA?


39 posted on 03/07/2007 7:59:18 AM PST by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: pgyanke
At the end of the day, the political parties have to DRAW people to their candidates, not just push them away from the alternative.

No they don't. Either works, truth be told. We have a winner-take-all system and thus 2 major parties. Push or pull, both can work.

Stop berating those that "sat out". They didn't affect as much of the outcome as those that weren't drawn to a candidate.

They affected the outcome precisely the same: not at all. Sitting out, "not drawn", whatever - if you don't vote, it's the same thing. The difference is that many of these people who "sat out" would have likely voted Republican if they had voted; whereas, those in the general public who just "weren't drawn to" anyone could have flipped either way.

40 posted on 03/07/2007 7:59:24 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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