Giuliani Can't Win the General Election

The Sierra Times ^ | 03/07/2007 | John Bender

[Congressman Billybob]

One of the "Jews in NYC" who nearly died on 9/11 as the first Tower fell, was my fiancee. She doesn't happen to be Jewish, but that wouldn't matter to anyone making a statement as stupid as you just quoted.

I presume you were just reporting, not agreeing with, that hateful, stupid statement.

John / Billybob

[torchthemummy]

If Rudy is the Republican nominee and Hillary is the Democrat, a significant part of his support will come from voters who refuse to vote for her, no matter what. At this point the Anyone But Hillary voting block is much larger than the Anyone But Rudy block.

While I don't expect it to be a large percentage, I believe that with an election such as 2008 where the VP of the current Prez is not running, the candidate that is able to draw those that never vote/rarely vote/first time voters combined with cross-over votes will win the gig.

With all of Rudy's misteps/faults in regards to his marriages, etc., can Hillary and Co. really engage in the questioning personal morality? Did Rudy lie under oath, subourn(sic) perjury, have countless extra-marital affairs, etc.? Can anyone honestly state that Bill and Hillary are actually married on a physical/loving level? Of course not so he instantly can play the high road while 527s highlight Hillary and Co's hypocrisy.

[WFTR]

I won't be surprised if Hillary Clinton isn't the Democrat nominee, but I don't think she'd be weak against Rudy Giuliani. She's still going to get the reliable Democrat vote. Against Rudy Giuliani, she doesn't lose that much of the consistent Democrat vote. The "Reagan Democrats" who provided the winning margin for Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush are not going to leave their party to vote for a guy who thinks that killing a half-born child with scissors should be "an option," who wants to take their guns, and who likes to dress as a woman. They may stay home; they may vote third party; or they may hold their noses and vote for her. Among the erratic voters, she'll get the votes of those who want to see the first woman president. She'll get the votes of those who feel sorry for her because Bill Clinton cheats on her. She'll get the votes of those who see the Clinton years as "glory years" of the modern Democrat party. Ultimately, she'll get a good turnout from blacks who will remember that Rudy Giuliani's reign in New York City was a time when cops put a plunger handle up the rectum of an innocent black man and taunted "It's Giuliani time." She doesn't have much personal charisma, but many of us find Rudy Giuliani even more grating.

Against all of that, Rudy Giuliani cannot rally any traditional GOP support. He won't rally the gun owners. Hillary may be just as likely to take our guns, but letting Rudy win as a Republican means that we no longer have a political party that will say "No" to the gun-grabbers. He won't rally the pro-lifers. Hillary may do less to protect life, but again, a Republican winning with Rudy's position means that pro-lifers no longer have a party to represent their beliefs. He can't rally those who understand that national security starts with border security because he stands against border security.

He'll make things closer in New York because he'll win more votes in the city than Republicans typically do. He'll just lose too many votes outside the city to tip the state to his side. He'll make California a little closer, but ultimately, the "first woman president" draw will keep California on Hillary's side. He might win New Jersey, but he'll lose Ohio because he can't win Reagan Democrats. Arkansas comes into play again in the South. The beltway folks in northern Virginia mean that Virginia is always in play, but this time, the Republican candidate won't get a boost from the rural areas of the state. The more traditional Republicans learn about what Rudy Giuliani really believes, the less likely they are to vote for him. States that have been solidly Republican will come back into play for the Democrats. Rudy Giuliani is not the ideal candidate to beat Hillary Clinton.

On top of all of these things, Rudy Giuliani will suppress Republican turnout overall. He doesn't represent the people who traditionally vote Republican. His "coattails" will likely help the Democrats more than the Republicans, so his nomination will mean the Democrats gaining more seats in Congress.

Bill

[Congressman Billybob]

I suggest you take a look at the reference to Paint and Powder in my article on Giuliani. And then take a look at the research on Hasty Pudding at Harvard. A number of former Presidents were members of Hasty Pudding.

There is a tradition, especially in very old organizations, of "drag" routines in shows for charity. Those who classify this as being "a cross-dresser" are morons. I say that as someone who has danced in a charity show in Baltimore in a Carmen Miranda dress.

Call me a cross-dresser, and I will rearrange your nose. Intellectually speaking, of course.

Congressman Billybob

Latest article: "Rudy Beats Hillary -- End of Story"

[mad_as_he$$]

First, sorry for your loss.

Second, absolutely just reporting. I was there for a seminar and was stranded for four days after. Lots of time to converse with the locals.

One of the problems Rudy has is that there is a growing feeling around the country that only things East of the Appalachians are of interest to the ruling class. Rudy has name recognition but we will see how deep his draw is.

[Free ThinkerNY]

Rudy Giuliani's reign in New York City was a time when cops put a plunger handle up the rectum of an innocent black man and taunted "It's Giuliani time."

The cops who did that never said, "It's Giuliani time." That was a lie made up by Sharpton and the victims lawyers. Giuliani helped to save thousands of black lives by helping to dramatically reduce the murder rate in NYC. His anti-crime policies saved countless black women from becoming victims of rape. Countless numbers of black people in NYC avoided becoming victims of many other crimes as a result of Giuliani's anti-crime initiatives.

[Congressman Billybob]

I did not lose. I gained. My fiancee was there when the first Tower fell. But she ran north as the dust filled the streets. She's in North Carolina with me, now.
I'm glad you were just reporting, not agreeing.

John / Billybob

[WFTR]

The cops who did that never said, "It's Giuliani time." That was a lie made up by Sharpton and the victims lawyers. Giuliani helped to save thousands of black lives by helping to dramatically reduce the murder rate in NYC. His anti-crime policies saved countless black women from becoming victims of rape. Countless numbers of black people in NYC avoided becoming victims of many other crimes as a result of Giuliani's anti-crime initiatives.

I don't know whether they said it or whether your claim is just a whitewash of the Giuliani record. In either case, his "successes" for the black community don't change the fact that there were notable attacks and killings of innocent black men by the police under his watch. Maybe the destruction of some innocent people by police is considered a reasonable price to pay in New York City. I'm not interested in having that policy brought to my neighborhood. Furthermore, that trade isn't going to play well among blacks in most parts of the country. I suspect that any Democrat nominee will regain the black vote in a big way if Rudy Giuliani is the nominee.

[Ditter]

Thank you sir, coming from you I am honored.

[Free ThinkerNY]

"Sharpton shows up whenever he sees a chance to encourage race hatred -- his most recent contribution was persuading Abner Luima, the black man brutalized by New York police, to say that the cops had said, "It's Giuliani time!" before inflicting their torture."

(This was later unmasked as a total fraud.)

Mona Charen

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/charen041599.asp

There are shootings of unarmed people by police all over America. There are cases right now in NYC. Is Bloomberg responsible for that? More blacks are killed by black cops in Washington D.C and Detroit than in NYC? Is Giuliani to blame for that, too? The cop who shot the "groom to be" in NYC recently was black. Did "racist Rudy" tell him to pull the trigger? What policy did Giuliani institute to allow cops to kill "innocent blacks." Democrats will have the black vote no matter who Republicans nominate.

[WFTR]

The Democrats will have most of the black vote no matter who the Republicans nominate, but the Republicans have made strides to improve their numbers in that area. Primarily, Republicans have appealed to blacks whose beliefs on moral issues are similar to those of the social conservatives who have been a core constituency of the Republican Party. If we nominate Rudy Giuliani, we lose that progress.

Whether he did something that resulted in these practices or not, Rudy Giuliani will lose votes from people who believe that he covertly encouraged police officers to shoot without justification and to abuse innocent people in custody. His being in the race will give Democrats something to use to motivate blacks to vote to be sure that if he did something to encourage those practices, he won't get a chance to do more on a national level. Finally, his stances on moral and cultural issues will drive away those who were turning to the Republican Party to escape the open sewer that the Democrats would like to make of this society.

Mr. Giuliani's supporters love to talk about how strong he'll be in the election, but they are wrong. He is not going to be strong with the conservative voters who have been a traditional core group in the Republican Party. He may find a few shills to try to help con conservatives into voting for him, but many will not be fooled. He's going to lose these votes. Another area where he will be at a disadvantage is among minorities. He's going to lose more of the votes that President Bush won in 2004. As the thread states, Rudy Giuliani can't win the general election.

If you believe in unrestricted abortion on demand, then he's your candidate. If you believe that private citizens should not be allowed to own firearms, then he's your candidate. If you believe in amnesty for illegal aliens, then he's your candidate. If you're just looking for someone who is certain to beat Hillary, then you're deluding yourself in thinking that Rudy Giuliani is that candidate.

Bill

[Dstorm]

He has promised nothing of the sort, he promised to appoint someone in the mold Thomas and Scalia, that could mean anything he wants it to. Remember Clinton Speak? past is prolouge, this guy would sell his own mother out to gain power.
If the Republicans put up a Gun Grabber I will vote for someone else and buy more guns, because either way a gun grabber will be in office

[Dstorm]

You sound like you really hate the Socons
But you still needs them to win, it must really tick you off

[Dstorm]

You keep saying that, doesn't make it true. I say it will be your fault for putting forth a candidate who we can't vote for, who's right? -- therefore it is a poor argument on your part.

[kjam22]

lol... whatever.. I give a considerable amount of money to charity. I do charitable things..... including gigs etc. I'm not dressing up like a princess to raise money though.

Rudy is at best a RINO. At worst somewhere left of RINO. Everyone at this site rightfully complains about the RINOs and the way they have hurt the party etc. I'm not voting for one for president. Especially some dressup queen :)

[kjam22]

I think what I read of this article is exactly right. I think if Rudy is the nominee..... many conservatives stay home in November 08. They did it last November and it can happen again. That's the bottom line.

[mad_as_he$$]

Oh great, sorry I misunderstood. Since you are in the South what do they think of Rudy in NC?

[Ditter]

HUH?

>>>> "the only voters who have a voice in government are the ones who make the politicians work to get their vote">>>

Correction: The only voters who have a voice in government are the ones who win!

[freedomfiter2]

Correction: The only voters who have a voice in government are the ones who win!


Wrong. How much political capital does a politician spend on voter groups who are going to vote for his reelection no matter what he does? That's the reason GOP pols govern left of their constituents, they are trying to recruit voters they don't already own.

[Ditter]

When you find the politician that agrees with 'you' 100% *AND* he can win, let me know. Until then YOU are going to be on the outside looking in.

Politics is the 'art of the compromise', you haven't figured that out yet.