No deal, Rudy

Catholic Online ^ | 3/6/2007

[markomalley]

They are saying that the next GOP presidential candidate might very well be a pro-abortion Republican who promises not to push that issue and is strong on other issues.

They hope that pro-lifers will “be reasonable,” not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and go along quietly.

We won’t.

Republicans and Democrats in 1980 took radically different approaches to the right to life. Republicans wrote into their party platform that all abortions should be outlawed. Democrats wrote into their party platform that not only should abortion be legal, but families should be forced to pay for others’ abortions through their taxes.

Democratic leaders have been utterly committed to their party platform. But there’s a movement afoot for Republicans to shrug off this plank of the party platform altogether, and give a pro-abortion politician the reins of the party and, they hope, the White House.

In particular, Rudy Giuliani has become a favorite for president of conservative talk-show hosts, and pro-war and tough-on-crime Republicans. He’s also way ahead in polls like Newsweek’s, though it’s anyone guess what such polls mean so early in the process.

The way the pro-Rudy argument goes is this: For the past three decades, social conservatives have had the luxury of insisting on purity in the Republican Party. Their clout was such that any candidate had to undergo a “forced conversion” before running for national office. But 9/11 changed that. Now, extremist Islam and the war on terror are such all-consuming issues, and we can’t be so caught up with abortion anymore.

Since Giuliani is committed to the war on terror and is a great crisis manager with a track record rooting out the gangs of New York, we shouldn’t demand that he be pro-life, but instead we should be willing to make a deal.

Rudy’s deal: He’ll promise not to push the pro-abortion agenda, and he’ll nominate judges in the mold of Samuel Alito and John Roberts. Pro-lifers in the Republican Party in return would support him, but keep insisting that the party stay pro-life, and fight our fiercest pro-life battles at the state level, where they belong.

That seems like a good deal, at first blush. We’re well aware that “forced conversions” to the pro-life fold are far from the ideal. Think of the candidacy of Bob Dole in 1996. And it is true that the fight against judicial tyranny is an immense front in the battle for the right to life. Transforming the courts is a prerequisite to victory elsewhere.

But what dooms the deal from the start is the fact that it totally misunderstands what pro-lifers care about in the first place.

When they ask us to “be reasonable” and go along with a pro-abortion leader, they assume that there is something unreasonable about the pro-life position to start with.

We’re sorry, but we don’t see what is so unreasonable about the right to life. We’ve seen ultrasounds, we’ve named our babies in the womb, we’ve seen women destroyed by abortion. What looks supremely unreasonable to us is that we should trust a leader who not doesn’t only reject the right to life but even supports partial-birth abortion, which is more infanticide than abortion.

We also see the downside of Rudy’s deal. If pro-lifers went along, we’d soon find out that a pro-abortion Republican president would no longer preside over a pro-life party. The power a president exerts over his party’s character is nearly absolute. The party is changed in his image. He picks those who run it and, both directly and indirectly, those who enter it.

Thus, the Republicans in the 1980s became Reaganites. The Democrats in the 1990s took on the pragmatic Clintonite mold. Bush’s GOP is no different, as Ross Douthat points out in “It’s His Party” in the March Atlantic Monthly.

A Republican Party led by a pro-abortion politician would become a pro-abortion party. Parents know that, when we make significant exceptions to significant rules, those exceptions themselves become iron-clad rules to our children. It’s the same in a political party. A Republican Party led by Rudy Giuliani would be a party of contempt for the pro-life position, which is to say, contempt for the fundamental right on which all others depend.

Would a pro-abortion president give us a pro-life Supreme Court justice? Maybe he would in his first term. But we’ve seen in the Democratic Party how quickly and completely contempt for the right to life corrupts. Even if a President Giuliani did the right thing for a short time, it’s likely the party that accepted him would do the wrong thing for a long time.

Would his commitment to the war on terror be worth it? The United States has built the first abortion businesses in both Afghanistan and Iraq, ever. Shamefully, our taxes paid to build and operate a Baghdad abortion clinic that is said to get most of its customers because of the pervasive rape problem in that male-dominated society. And that happened under a pro-life president. What would a pro-abortion president do?

The bottom line: Republicans have made inroads into the Catholic vote for years because of the pro-life issue. If they put a pro-abortion politician up for president, the gains they’ve built for decades will vanish overnight.

[gpapa]

I thank you for the list of excuses why Rudy should never be the Republican nominee.

[Artemis Webb]

No you don't...but have a good night also.

[Siobhan]

I appreciate your kindness. I'll be seeing you around FR. Now it is late. Good night!

[upsdriver]

"Hillary presidency would serve you right, but pity the country."

Okay, say Rudy wins and Hillary loses. Now we have two pro abortion political parties and no one to stand up for millions of innocent babies. Pity the country?

[Waryone]

Rudy’s deal: He’ll promise not to push the pro-abortion agenda, and he’ll nominate judges in the mold of Samuel Alito and John Roberts. Pro-lifers in the Republican Party in return would support him, but keep insisting that the party stay pro-life, and fight our fiercest pro-life battles at the state level, where they belong.

I've had misgivings about this promise Mr. Giuliani has made. Let's say by some miracle he's the republican nominee.

The vote in the South will be depressed because of all of the Soros funded billboards showing Rudy in a dress surrounded by his own words about confiscating guns, and supporting abortion, gay rights, and amnesty for illegals.

More liberals, democratic and republican, will be elected forcing the make up of the house and senate to be even more liberal than it is now. Even if he is elected and nominates someone of the quality of Janice Rogers Brown, it will not matter, because the liberals, democratic and republican, in the senate will not confirm the nominee.

After making a show of doing his best, he'll finally say 'guys we tried but it's not working.' Then he'll nominate someone who thinks like he does.

As for not pushing pro-abortion agenda, he won't have to. There will be plenty of democrats and liberal republicans in Congress to do it for him and they will be emboldened to do so because they have Rudy as president. They know that he agrees with them in his heart. If it's not abortion, it will be gay rights, or amnesty, or second amendment issues.

I can't help but see this as a heads libs win, tails conservatives lose situation.

[arthurus]

"the spawn of Satan" elected rather than vote for Rudy Giuliani?

Rather than???

[upsdriver]

"What exactly is a "Black Church?""

It's a place where white liberals go so they can "feel" religious. Usually during a time preceding an upcoming election. Hope this helps!

[jmc813]

I can guarantee you there are a lot more disruptor's of threads that are pro Rudy than there are Rudy supporters who disrupt threads supporting Duncan Hunter.

Uhhhh, that's because we're on a conservative forum. Hunter is conservative and Rudy ain't. What kind of twisted logic would dictate otherwise?

[jmc813]

To be fair to Giuliani, he's on the right side of law and order

Being a gun grabber is "on the right side of law and order"?

[fatima]

(((Hugs))) Never answer .Did you curse me out,heeheee.

[Carry_Okie]

I believe you are saying his position on abortion is not an issue for you, but his gun control positions are vis-a-vis the Second Amendment which should mobilize us as a nation to the defense of our homeland. Is that right?

No, abortion is an issue for me. However, it's obviously not an issue for GOP "moderates." They claim Rudy's policy preferences and personal character will make him such an effective president in the War on Terror that his other baggage pales by comparison.

Accordingly, I'm pointing out that one of his policy prefereces to which conservatives also object, gun control, is counterproductive in the WOT, not to mention its inherent perils to life and freedom that have been repeated throughout history.

[takenoprisoner]

There are two man eating tigers on the loose. But one consumes less human flesh than the other. By catholic logic, the less flesh eating tiger gets a temporary pass. Now that is a stretch of immensly flawed and wrongful convictions. The premise itself is based on a losing proposition regardless of the outcome. In this case, eventually the less flesh eating tiger, will at his leisure, consume you anyway.

No thanks. I'll pass.

[MHGinTN]

Actually they go to pander and manipulate the 'darkies' -vote slaves for the democrats- when they need them for something like image or votes ... how else should one characterize the Rodham-rodent dialect insutls she was invited by black preachers to deliver in Selma Black Churches?

[upsdriver]

Wasn't that amazing! To me, Hillary was being totally racist. And the congregation laps it all up. They are very discriminating in choosing who offends them and who doesn't. Liberals treat blacks like second class citizens and are loved for doing it.

[fatima]

I pass on both the tigers too.

[TAdams8591]

Liberalism has contaminated much in the United States including our pop culture, full of materialism and decadence, which we export to many countries all over the globe. Your position is not at all unreasonable.

I thought it interesting during Oprah's travels to some of the poorest areas in Africa, the children knew Brittany Spears and many times asked Oprah about her.

[fatima]

Insulting post.

[TAdams8591]

"and we weren't supposed to impose OUR morality on THEM"

A perceptive comment that is true in more ways than one.

[Siobhan]

We are not talking about tigers. We are talking about political candidates and Catholic teaching. Your point is not served by your illustration with tigers.

[narses]

+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

"Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." - Rudy Giuliani

Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.
Rudy Giuliani

We don't have to accept liberal Rudy. There are other options. This fellow may be the best one:







"How can I help?"

Get informed: Duncan Hunter on the Issues

Sign up: Freepmail me to join the Duncan Hunter Pinglist

Or Freepmail seanmerc to join the Veterans for Hunter Pinglist

Put your money where your values are: Contribute to Duncan Hunter's Presidential Campaign

Help spread the word: Purchase "Hunter for President" items. Proceeds go to the Hunter campaign.